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 Post subject: opening doors & closing doors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:14 pm 
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opening doors is the most difficult thing to animate in a FPS game,
allot of FPS game developers cant get this right,
like the doors in TC:E, the doors are opened the hole time :roll: bit unrealistic.

in allot of FPS games, the doors can be opened by selecting the action icon,
but it looks unrealistic, it looks like the player can open the door with his mind,
like a jedi knight :roll:

so I thought, since the devs are aiming to be the top nr1 mod,
why not change the method to open doors,
and do something revolutionary,
and be one step ahead of all the other FPS games.

so does anyone have some original idea's for opening the doors in the game?

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Last edited by Dragonathan on Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:37 pm 
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actually, I'd say having doors stay open is more realistic than having them close automatically.

look at SWAT4, they worked EXTREMLY hard on realism, and doors stay open.

you can close them, just walk up and hit use again.

I could see some opening, and closing after you pass through, but in the end, it's still the mapper's choice.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:59 pm 
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it wrote:
look at SWAT4, they worked EXTREMLY hard on realism, and doors stay open.


like I said, allot of "FPS game developers" cant get this right,
its too difficult to animate and code it,

I think the most easiest way to make it look realistic,
is to have this kind of door-knob

Image

when you wanna open the door,, you select the action icon, and while your holding your weopon, your left hand opens the door by pulling the door knock down, it doesnt requires allot of animation on the fingers,
than the door automaticly opens, and it stay opens,
now that the easy part,

but how can you close the door and still make it realistic?
thats really really difficult,
and thats why allot of FPS developers cant get the "opening door system"
right because of this issue, its too difficult to close the doors and still make it look realistic.


P.S. why is evryone keep saying: "thats up to the mapper"
afcourse its up to the mapper, duhhhhh......
its pointless to keep saying that.

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Last edited by Dragonathan on Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:14 pm 
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in ET, doors automatically close. I don't like it. in order to do it, you need to time it based on the speed you would normally open the door and go through at.

this beans it will either

    close on someone walking/crouching through
    close too late after someone sprints through,
    or it will be just right.

that just right time is near-impossible to achieve. and there is always the guy who needs to clear from the door before he even thinks of going in, and that takes time that also must be factored in.

animating opening a door is possible. it's hard, and takes forever, but it's possible.it would cause the devs tons of frustration, because it would be used as a substitute for ALL use animations. this means, you look like you are opening a door, when you are hitting a light switch.[/list]

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:18 pm 
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opening the door isnt that difficult to animate,

but closing the door would be difficult,
or they should let the door close automaticly,
but that would be unrealistic,

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:10 am 
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Animation is frightfully difficult.

Price of Peace switched engines due to a lack of animators.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:06 am 
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Asking for animations would pretty much mean they need 1) more animators or 2) another engine. Both would cut profits and only extend the period of time for it takes to make the game.

~Silentcrisis

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:58 pm 
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there are tons of different ways to open the doors,
opening the doors is more easier to code/animate than closing the doors,

closing the doors is quite bit difficult to animate,
but i've an idea,

now look at this picture:
Image

look at example.1,
lets say your inside the door,
you wanna close the door,
you should see an action icon when your near the the A. section.
if you select the action icon,
you will close the door by moving your left arm/hand,
(while holding your weopon on the right arm/hand)
and you will touche the A. section/erea
and it will automaticly close,
this doesnt requires any animation on the fingers,
is just slight touche on the door,
just like i suggested to touche someones back when someone blocks your way, http://www.truecombat.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=366

ok thats my idea to close the door in example.1,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

now look look at example.2:
Image

now this is the most diffcult/complex one to code/animate,

"closing the door from the outside"

well i've an idea for this one too,
when your standing in the C. section/erea,
you should see an action icon, and when you select the action icon,
you should automaticly close the door,
it should be a short cutscene/animation,
where things happens automaticly in the B. section/erea.

this method is implented in stealth/RPG games like MGS,
i've never seen this in any FPS game, but it must be possible

does anyone have some different idea's for closing the doors?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:02 pm 
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thats really hard to animate. Look at AA< even with its millions of dollars of taxes worth of funding, they still cant do it. Not to mention they used MoCap. and the company that made the game is called the MOVES institute, a government and military funded research instutute who develops military training simulators for all 4 divisions of the DoD (Department of Defense not Day of Defeat). BTW, MOVES Institues has a LGPL 3d engine that any aspiring dev can download and use. Its the same tech used by the DoD to make simulators to train its troops.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:29 am 
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another method to open doors, is to kick doors,
when stand infront of a door, you should see an action icon,
you select it, you see a progress bar,
just like when your defusing the bomb in obj
while the progress bar is loading, you're kicking the door with your right foot,
but this shouldnt be viewed in a 1rst person view,
but in 3rd person view,

so evrytime you select the action icon when your standing infront of the door,
you hotswap to 3rd person view,

"edit"
because it will look terrible if your kicking the door in 1rst person view.
so you have to do this in 3rd person view
"edit"

so instead of seeing this view:
Image

you should see something like this,
Image

and when the progress bar is loaded fully,
the door should autmaticly opened,

edit: and it stays open the hole time
than you should hotswap to 1rst person view again,

this will increase the "teamplay factor",
because when im trying to open the door,
the hole team have to wait untill i opened the door,
and that will make things look cool, also realistic,
is just awesome to see the hole team waits behind/on the side's untill I opened the door, you really get that real life war/combat feel.


edit:
watch this movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqrYzkHt ... al%20force

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Last edited by Dragonathan on Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:48 pm 
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Well, the animation will have to be done for that. but for the door part, its up to the mapper. Personally, I would use a door breacher instead since it is faster. If there are civilians, I would use a battering ram. I would wan to stand directly infront of a door and banging on it if I knew hostiles were behind it, unless that door is 6" of steel.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:44 pm 
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I know RtCW had door kicking as a feature, so it might not actually be that much work. It was extremely cool. Very fast, but very noisy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:29 pm 
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its not a bad idea though. It will give the players other options. Breach it, ram it, blast it (shotgun), or kick it. Each of them having their own risks you have to take.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:39 am 
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I know that the game Return to Castle Wolfenstein, not ET, allows you to in some instances kick doors open.

Although it was added just to make the game more enjoyable it was next to irrelivent.

Although I do like the idea.

~Silentcrisis

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:50 am 
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well, more ways to interact with the same thing/object will make this game feel more spontaneous rather than a game limited by a set of rules (as in you open doors by turning the know, you cant jump over this and that even though its only 4 feet high etc.)

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