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What should MWTC do?
1 map release on the "hopeful" basis that 3rd party contributors will contribute TC-specific scale and quality maps 93%  93%  [ 26 ]
Use selected original COD4 maps and sticking to COD4 scale (previously dumped when thought to have map contributors) 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 28
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 Post subject: Coroner's Blog 20/01/13 Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:16 pm 
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Team Terminator
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From Coroner's Blog.

coroner wrote:
Beep.

It has been some time and I had hardly time to work on MWTC. Unfortunately the freelance mappers stopped their contributions too.
Therefore I guess it is time for a change of plans. I've put some further touches to the mod code and some assets, and to the, so far, only map mp_tc_backlot.
This would be a package ready for release but I am struggling whether it would be a meaningful alpha with one single map.
I can't promise more mapping from my side in the near future.

There are two options:
a) 1-map release, hoping for third party contributions with TC-specific scale and quality.
b) The use of selected original COD4 maps and sticking to COD4 scale (we've dumped this option long ago assuming there would be some progress with own maps)

Feel free to discuss.


Feel free to vote above and post your thoughts below, etc.

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Last edited by Diane on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:44 pm 
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IMO sticking with the new scale and releasing just one map will be just fine. CQB only released with one map and I loved it. I played the heck out of that map with my bro in law and little bro (unfortunately it didn't like a few AMD gfx cards so we weren't able to do it at LAN parties). CoD 4 has already been a LAN party favorite for years, so the addition of MWTC will be quite well recieved, we can't wait!


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 Post subject: 1 map Alpha
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:24 pm 
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I think releasing with default COD maps would defeat the purpose of making a new game..

I say release the 1 map alpha, and hopefully it catches on and gives incentive to mappers to develop more maps..

If it doesnt then you can always fall back to using the default maps anyways


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:43 pm 
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Master
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I am not entirely sure about either of those.
The 1-map-army is kinda odd. Might happen the same thing that happend to CQB - 1 map, everyone saw what the thing offered, kthxbai. The chances of there being people to make maps are even more limited if the popularity of the mod is low. So, getting some popularity would be quite necessary if we want maps (and infact, players).

The CoD maps, on the other hand, defeat the whole idea of "Let's make something epic!". I guess it would work for an alpha version and it is better than having one map.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:16 pm 
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I agree with the 1-map release, this increases the chance of random mappers and 3rd party modders creating something for the mod and motivating each others.

CQB is a story if it's own since it did not offer support for 3rd party content.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:44 am 
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Groove Six Studios
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Before the idea with the freelance mappers came up, my plan was to release MWTC with four maps that fitted best from my view: Overgrown, Crash, the public Favela remake, and Downpour.

I assume there would still be enough to test and adjust, as the first alpha of MWTC will be much less tweaked and balanced as CQB.

Still there would be need and hopefully motivation for new maps ... but switching to a different scale than COD4 would be impossible then, I guess.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:18 pm 
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High Master
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Both sound really bad. Therefore didn't vote.

1. One map isn't enough to keep players playing the game, just like CQB. Wasted effort.

2. Just another CoD, why even bother?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:06 pm 
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Team Terminator
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Damien wrote:
I agree with the 1-map release, this increases the chance of random mappers and 3rd party modders creating something for the mod and motivating each others.

CQB is a story if it's own since it did not offer support for 3rd party content.


^^ He posted what I think.

With CQB, there were people who wanted to port/make maps but it was locked. That's why it died so quickly with 1 map.

If MWTC is open to 3rd party content, I'm sure once an alpha is released and it's well received, people will want to contribute.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:20 pm 
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I agree with Diane and Damien. I think it would be wise to recycle a few of the old q3tc maps as well (first versions don't need to be perfect). Another idea is to develop multiple mission system (some kind of q3tc 1.2+ and tce 0.5 "wip" mission mixture).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:52 pm 
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gonzo|Uncle Bionic wrote:
2. Just another CoD, why even bother?
As much as I'd like to disagree, I can't seem to.

A friend of mine saw Arma2 on a Steam sale the other day so he got me the game. I was sceptical at first since I don't really like playing memory with the game controls (Arma uses a lot of your keyboard!) but decided to start with the tutorials and adjust the key settings as I go along.

The game really impressed me with it's realism but what it's really missing is close quarters combat (IMO). Actually, I can't think of a CQB game which uses that kind of realism.

This is where some future TC could offer something new. Completely different tactics on small scale urban maps. The level design isn't an issue here (CoD maps, for an example) but the game mechanics are.

IMO, CQB was really close to achieving the kind of realism TC games moved towards in the past years. The most obvious issue aside (one small map), the engine it runs on really shows it's age.

That being said, CoD:MW engine is far superior but doesn't feel like the best choice any more. It has it's limitations (no more portal scopes) but the main problem, as I see it, is, no matter how awesome the game (mod) is, I don't see it reaching a large audience if you have to purchase CoD first. There is a number of kind-of-realistic-f2p FPS's out there and each of them being standalone.

Too bad some open source IdTech variant can't be used..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:35 am 
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Groove Six Studios
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Quote:
I don't see it reaching a large audience if you have to purchase CoD first. There is a number of kind-of-realistic-f2p FPS's out there and each of them being standalone.


I think enough ppl have COD4 already. It is still a very popular game ranking in the top ten at gametracker.

Quote:
Too bad some open source IdTech variant can't be used..


Too bad that all those engine coders that come and go always want to code their own new engine from scratch. It would have been so easy to just add the few things to ET I've asked for ...
Still cheating would ruin everything. If an updated open source ET engine would exist cheating would be even easier.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:31 pm 
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coroner wrote:
Too bad that all those engine coders that come and go always want to code their own new engine from scratch. It would have been so easy to just add the few things to ET I've asked for ...
Still cheating would ruin everything. If an updated open source ET engine would exist cheating would be even easier.
Yes, that's what I meant.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:00 pm 
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Expert
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So, I'm worried about the fact that the current community around the True Combat became really small, and I think this weighs against a release of an alpha with a single map. In my opinion this will be disappointing for any players (although there are multiple servers on which to run a single map 24/7 - for example, Killhouse or Crossfire), but really it can serve as motivation for the current mappers in this community seize maps of the other TC versions, as sxy said. However, unlike sxy, I think the quality of work in the maps that will be ported could be actually critical to the success of the mod.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Ok, then joining the pieces, who would be willing to still to work with the original maps? I know that this topic is not appropriate for this, but if there isn't someone, then this discussion is being made in the wind. On the other hand, if there is still anyone willing, as far as I know there is a forum's channel created by Diane for discussion, and you need to meet, choose someone to lead, stipulate and charge goals from you (and the rest put their egos aside and to work). Comunication is the key of success. I can't believe that there is a central skeleton ready and no one capable that wants to put the muscles and skin missing. What to say about that? Well, it is not a total failure if the capable persons leave their fears aside and lay their hands on to do something that I consider great. The alpha could be launched now with a single map, if these people will start porting the maps that still missing, to making a package with they sometime later. Who is still willing to do what's missing?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:16 pm 
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All I could say was emails were not returned to me. I had specific questions and nobody answered them. There was no communication within the team. And I've been burned too many times spending literally years making maps only for people to say they suck and nobody plays them. I've done a lot. I'm tired now. :)
Good luck to the team in finishing this new mod. I hope it is released.


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