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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:31 pm 
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High Master
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Location: Under the hood.
Go for "true" of course.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Master
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The biggest advantage of "true scale" is TC:CoD being it's own game. CoD4 simply cannot compete with that. But I do understand the cons.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:17 pm 
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Master
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Yeah, CQB had problems with movement in the early versions just because a player in game doesn't slip and slide like in real life, it kind of put me off at the first moment too, just because of how easy it was to get stuck by something in a doorway. I have to agree with Damien, but is there no way to make something like a mix and match?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Master
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So, any decisions regarding player scale? I'm eager to start mapping. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Damien wrote:
So, any decisions regarding player scale? I'm eager to start mapping. :)


Same. I've made a few mini test maps for myself already and am working on a mp_delta remix.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:24 pm 
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Master
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One thing came to mind, it's really up to the mapper to decide about the player scale regarding the map geometry (ceiling heights, door dimensions, etc.).
We can still create maps with (more) realistic player/level geometry size ratios and include default CoD4 maps so there's more content for the initial versions of the game. If they work with the TC concept, we keep them and if they don't work as good they get completely replaced with custom TC maps.

Sounds good?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:13 am 
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Expert
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I'm currently just learning COD4 Radiant by building a remix of Delta. I'm importing a "actor" and going off by its scale. But if I were to state any sort of scale that I use right now it would be:

Doorways for 1 person: 84 x 48
Window for 1 person: 40 height, by 56 width. 48 from floor to chest. (wall)
Wall thickness: 4
height of railings: 30

Not sure if it makes sense to you. Until Coroner supplies some default scale we should be working with I think its best to make any map with little details as possible for quick fixups later.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:17 am 
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Groove Six Studios
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Hi, I think we should not leave scale to the mapper completely, particularly not doorways and oil drums etc. Lets try to find some standards.

What I did in my true scale testing is to start from delta and did some modifications.

doorway: outer 48x80, inner (if frame) 44x78 (delta had 88 outer height), large public building entry: 96x84-96


steps: (like TCE) height 8 depth 10-12

walls: massive outer building wall 16, one layer brick etc. 8, internal light wood frame 4. (here one should comply with COD standards because of object penetration with depends on thickness)

story height: rule of thumb: 128 (also for reasons of tex alighnment), thickness of ceiling 16 (leaves 112 free height)

cargo containers, cars, car wrecks: can be used as is (only 0%-8% off)

oil drums: modelscale 0.8 (has to be applied in .map prefabs, collision geometry has to be changed)

cod4 dumpster: modelscale 0.8 (see above)

classic TC crate (if necessary): 48x48


I guess I will be mapping the weekend too! probably I convert mp_backlot to mp_tc_backlot with true scale, then I can publish ...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:05 am 
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Master
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Sounds good, I'll start planning out mp_tc snow then. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:42 pm 
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Sharp Shooter
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Location: Canada
ive got an idea. Why not make it to your local building standard?

1 cod unit is 1 inch right so make the doors 30-36 by 78-96 depending on the door type. make the railings up to code, if you have a deck 30inches off the ground some places require you to have a railing 36 inches high.

The step height is 200mm that would be just under 8inches etc making it 10 or 12 would be a tripping hazard....

Of course there are problems with this too... who wants to hold the door open while whole squad rushes out of it one at a time?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:22 am 
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Groove Six Studios
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@Marty

I am afraid the freedom is not that high.
Door openings have to follow limitation imposed by the player collision system.
Already with the suggested door opening of 80 units, a small clip brush has to be placed in front of the door if the door threshold is higher than the surrounding. Otherwise the player would get stuck, because of the collision system.
Step height is 8 units (inches), railings are 36-42 units.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:08 am 
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Marksman
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You mentioned a while back that the speed was slower than CoD4, did that mean movement speed? And if so, by what factor abouts?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:07 pm 
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Expert
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:shock:

Image

Higher Res:
http://imagebin.org/227608

Gigidy.

BTW: I have mp_siege, mp_railhouse (my daytime version). All are full caulk in cod 4 radiant. Just needs textures and rescale.

Also a tip to other mappers:

Dimstar pointed out 1 interesting thing for me: Use cod2 radiant to open .map from tce then save as mp_name and open in cod 4 radiant.

I took it a step further: Once opened in cod 4 radiant you will see that the brushes look super weird and are broken. Make a giant caulk brush surrounding the entire map and click Selection > Select > Select Inside. Now wait a little bit and the entire map will be selected. Once its selected click the caulk texture the errors with the brushes will show up correctly and now your entire map is caulk and shows all brushes. You will run into an issue with tiny boxes everywhere and lots of missing models showing up as different objects. Look at your 2d view screen to see all of them. On the 3d go to location of a missing model or tiny box or whatever it is that shouldnt be there. Select it and then click Selection > Select Classname. This will select most if not all of the random boxes, models, etc with the same "classname" (selecting a light will select all lights) around the entire map and just click backspace to delete them. Your 2d view shows all the models just go there on your 3d view and repeat until your map is clean with caulk brushes only. All thats left to do is rescale and texture.

I hope this makes things easier for you guys.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:40 am 
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For those of you rebuilding tce maps in cod4 radiant from scratch I have some good news for you. ( I hope ) I went and converted some of the officials so that now you can open them in cod 4 radiant. I cleaned up many of the brushes and models, but there is still some work to do in regards to broken models and some tce objects as well as scale.

Maps included:

mp_delta_semiClean
mp_northport_semiClean
mp_snow_semiClean ( .48 version )
mp_stadtrand_semiClean
mp_village_semiClean

http://www.gamefront.com/files/22229688 ... 4+form.zip

Hope this makes things easier for some of you interested in remaking these maps.

@ Coroner, I hope you dont mind me doing that. Since they are in original form and not a remake. I figured since some have already stated they are remaking the maps they might as well have an easier time this way.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:31 pm 
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Groove Six Studios
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Hi,

I would suggest that I provide serious contributors clean raw conversions from the original map files. For delta I have a conversion having a huge skybox etc for CQB already. If it seems that you are working on delta and snow, we should also concentrate on those.
That would make

snow (winter map)
delta (urban map)
backlot (desert map, I am more or less done)

Please pm me your email address if you are workin on delta or snow.


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