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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:32 pm 
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Team Terminator
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Android. wrote:
Diane wrote:
. . . But for now... anyone interested in modifying the ET engine and helping him out? :)

I've send him a PM on the forum. Don't know if thats the best way to contact him though.


Yes, that's the best way - unless he directly gives you another means of contact. He is a very busy man, so just be patient with his reply. He will reply. Eventually. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Marksman
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Diane wrote:
Android. wrote:
Diane wrote:
. . . But for now... anyone interested in modifying the ET engine and helping him out? :)

I've send him a PM on the forum. Don't know if thats the best way to contact him though.


Yes, that's the best way - unless he directly gives you another means of contact. He is a very busy man, so just be patient with his reply. He will reply. Eventually. :)


Ok I'll just wait.

But I've heard that the elements Coroner wants to change already have been changed in a newer engine (that is also created to process TC/ET). Wouldn't it be easier if Coroner ported that. I don't know if Coroner has any knowledge of this engine though. Neither do I know if the developer of the engine agrees on the use of it in TC.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:01 pm 
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Android. wrote:
You don't need an opensource project. You just need enough people that can change the source. If you create an opensource project cheaters will by-pass everything easily. This would create an even bigger problem as the currently active problems.

Revamp the ET-engine. Add new features and decrease the tweaking possibilities.

Cheaters? You mean all the guys who already bypass the non-existent punkbuster? How would this change the current situation anyways? Be serious man, there will be no difference.

Plus, any modifications to the ET engine will require the source to be publically available. So if you intend to modify the engine to add what Coroner wants, it will have to become public (read: open source) anyways.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Marksman
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Thats not true. I guess Coroner will give the files that relate to the adjustment to the developers that participate. Doesn't make it an opensource...

As I suggested a new engine might be a better and easier way to do this.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Android. wrote:
Thats not true. I guess Coroner will give the files that relate to the adjustment to the developers that participate. Doesn't make it an opensource...

As I suggested a new engine might be a better and easier way to do this.


http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html

GPL FAQ wrote:
Does the GPL require that source code of modified versions be posted to the public?

The GPL does not require you to release your modified version, or any part of it. You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization.

But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the program's users, under the GPL.

Thus, the GPL gives permission to release the modified program in certain ways, and not in other ways; but the decision of whether to release it is up to you.


The modified version must be made available to the public. There are no but's.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:52 am 
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Marksman
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I would like to help. I don't know any programming or modeling, so I'm not sure how helpful I can be, but I do have free time to do whatever.

I'm sure it's been mentioned before but, what's the possibility of using the new ET engine? ETXreal, or OpenWolf, I can't remember exactly. One of the other games I'm following, Unvanquished, took the code from Tremulous and placed it in that engine and it runs quite nicely, I play it at LAN parties all the time.

I guess we'd need access to the source for that though. Anyway, point is, I want to help any way I can, so let me know what I can do.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:49 am 
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Marksman
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I've got access to the source of one of those engines. So has some other developers. But It's coroners decision.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:26 am 
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Master
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Commander Will wrote:
I would like to help. I don't know any programming or modeling, so I'm not sure how helpful I can be, but I do have free time to do whatever.

I'm sure it's been mentioned before but, what's the possibility of using the new ET engine? ETXreal, or OpenWolf, I can't remember exactly. One of the other games I'm following, Unvanquished, took the code from Tremulous and placed it in that engine and it runs quite nicely, I play it at LAN parties all the time.

I guess we'd need access to the source for that though. Anyway, point is, I want to help any way I can, so let me know what I can do.

OpenWolf is just the same Xreal render. TremZ and Unvanquished both aren't showing that much of a progress, just as Xreal. Probably it's going to take them just as much time as it did take to release Tremulous 1.2 (The version 1.2 was never released, by the way).


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:15 am 
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Commander Will wrote:
I would like to help. (...) I'm sure it's been mentioned before but, what's the possibility of using the new ET engine?
For now, I think anyone who is willing to help with this, first needs to answer what was asked:

Coroner wrote:
"In essence, if anybody is still reading this, I decided to give it a last shot if there would be someone out there who is willing and capable of jumping on the train and modify the ET engine ...


After, with a team formed, any discussing and work about a new project with new engine may be facilitated because there is already a routine of work and understanding between people, and Coroner can assume the role of consultant.

Diane wrote:
It's nice to see so many people show interest. But this thread is turning basically into a wish list. Let's not lose sight that the whole thing was just asking for someone to modify the ET engine... not creating a whole team - nor discussing the TCE community and their issues, etc.
Diane, for now may be the case, but I disagree with you about the future of project (sorry if I don't understood what you mean). We need a new development team to boost the game and to make this community resurface. And at this point I agree with Commander Will, a new project needs to be made on a new engine.

It is clear to me that the two things are different, and must be treated in different ways. But it must to be clear too to all people that decide join in and help at this time.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:28 pm 
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DennerBR wrote:
We need a new development team to boost the game and to make this community resurface. And at this point I agree with Commander Will, a new project needs to be made on a new engine.

I have to agree. TC:E engine is outdated and, more important, unsupported.
Even considering new engines was disregarded and the argument was that it would lenghten the designing process. Few years later... no updates. So what was the original point?

I wonder where all these 3rd party devs are. Every once in a while a thread like this gets started, people become active again and then it all falls apart after a while.

So this time I'm calling all the 3rd party devs and the remaining community for a discussion about next steps. Who is really interested in starting a team and getting to work, even if it's from scratch on a new engine?

I am a level designer, texture artist, modeller and a musician with enough free time on my hands.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Groove Six Studios
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Hi, great to see a discussion rising, however, I see the focus drifting already to a new engine ... and tons of other ideas popping up.
Of course you are free to create your own team and I could participate as senior consultant if I can see the project heading somewhere and if a proof of concept would exist, but this is actually not what I've asked for.
On the contrary, I am asking for some very specific and moderate additions to the ET engine, nothing more nothing less, but doable.
The existence of such a modified version would give me the kick to spent some time on TC again.
So, why not just grab ET SDK, implement the listed items, publish the project or sent it to me. This would make a qualified entry for further talking.
And yes such a modified ET would be GPL, TC CQB game source can stay closed source, Urban Terror is doing this model for years.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Although I'm not sure whether this thread was actually created to help Coroner or not, I won't stop the discussion of another team.
I'd just like to note that Coroner isn't exactly looking to switch to an engine like OpenWolf or ET:Xreal for many reasons he already stated somewhere (things like stability, feature set and quality/bugs). He just wants to "slowly" upgrade the WolfET engine in small chunks like what he outlined in his blog post. He doesn't want all the features and bugs and problems that can come along with OpenWolf/ET:Xreal. He wants a controlled and stable "environment" for the game.
So any talk about him switching to a new engine like OpenWolf or ET:Xreal is not where I think he was hoping to go, discussion-wise.

EDIT: Coroner posted before me, so my post is basically useless now :lol:

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Last edited by Alpha Red on Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:53 pm 
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May I make a suggestion? Contact with Berserker - the Quake enthusiast who also made the famous mod Berserker@Quake 2. According to this video there is also a Quake 3 version. I also found this video which seems to show not only per-pixel lighting but also distortions, so possibly blur. Even moreso, years ago I found a video that showed a modified version of idTech 3 - a modified engine that gives bump-mapping, bloom and stencil shadows (but not only that). The problem I see with the second video thing is that I haven't heard anything from the creator of the video.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Marksman
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Alright so I'm just trying to make sense of this, it looks like this is what needs to happen.

Step 1: help Coroner with his engine modifications

Step 2: Create a new team to make a new TC game using a newer engine.

I personally don't know how to modify the ET engine, but I will go through my contacts, ask around and try to find someone who does. What background do you need to make the improvements? C++ programming?

Building a new team could be cool and I am willing to help in any way I can.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:52 am 
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This is interesting:

http://team-blur-games.com/overdose/about/

Especially:
Quote:
-Full SDK And Tool Set – OverDose is fully behind modifications and as such we have a complete toolset built from the ground up just for OverDose modders.

-Add-ons and game modifications support

• OverDose has an expanded movement system that’s like a buddy focussed Mirrors Edge. Players can: Go Prone, Move in Prone, Duck, Crawl, Slide, Walk, Run, Sprint, Jump, Long Jump (Leap), Dive and Swim.

• By yourself, players can mantle onto low objects, jump and pull yourself up onto higher objects, sprint and leap in one movement over shorter objects, hang off objects and hang/move off objects.

• With another player, players can reach even higher ledges by being helped up into higher places, either by pulling them up or giving them a boost.

• When you are down and awaiting a medic, you can crawl slowly, but can’t enter combat. If another team member is close by, then can drag you to safety much more quicker, and allow you to pull out your pistol to defend yourselves. Dragging a player to safety will allow a medic to revive them.
• Weapons not only have individual attachments, each with a pro-con, but also can jam in combat if not reloaded correctly.

-This now means that OverDose is totally open, totally moddable, and totally complete with its own mod tools, which include level compilers, map editors, font tools, custom HD .RoQ video compilers, texture compression tools, model format tools… Lets just say, a decent package of tools with a fully written SDK and developer wiki. So you don’t just get the game source code, you get the full shebang, everything. Of course media still belongs to OverDose, but the above should be great news to any mod people or budding game makers.

-Good news, every one! The OverDose level editor is nearly ready for use :D And while it wont support real time lighting quite yet (something you can do in real time in the engine anyway), it will support making the games maps and media without messing around with external editors, something that will ease the pain a lot of us face with OverDose mapping. Think of it as another step towards an awesome SDK, something we really feel like we have to push and get out there. Far, far too many PC games these days launch with no Mod tools at all, and to be quite honest with you that’s just not on in this day and age.

Their level editor is based off GTK Radiant.


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