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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:55 am 
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Tr3b announced porting his XReal renderer to W:ET's engine:

http://xreal-project.net/?p=362


Dynamic lighting and per-pixel gimmicks aside, this should mean an increase in the performance which is on the top of my list.

Sadly, it doesn't mean that much (see Hoak's post) unless someone distributes the 'improved' engine with the current W:ET assets and PB support which is unlikely.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:31 am 
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Groove Six Studios
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That's great news and I think it could mean something for CQB.
To get rid of any WET assets is not to far fetched as a goal. That's one step in the direction of standalone. The other main issue would be cheating and hacking.

I guess our common goal here would be to enjoy CQB on public servers without hackers and cheaters. This is something that seems impossible with available man power on the basis of a GPL game.
There is one thought I had years ago when I was toying around with an unfinished shooter project based on Xreal facing the very same problem. Here in a few words without any implication that something along these lines is planned atm:

Some ppl of the core game community and the developer found an non-legal, non-profit organization, lets call it the Trusted Player Club (TPC) for the time being.

The TCP has its own TCP game based on a GPL game which is developed inside the TPC. The game is not released to the public. The game is only shared inside the entity of the organization were it can be distributed without sharing the source and along with a non-disclosure agreement without violating the GPL.

Ppl are free to become a member of the TCP by agreeing to test TCPs game without cheating and hacking for the sake of fun and by paying a fee of 5 bucks to retrieve their individual member ID.

The organization's board can withdraw IDs if the servers tracking of the player behaviour indicates cheating.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:53 am 
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Expert
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Well, that's interesting idea. But I don't know how guys like Tr3b will like it. (Considering you might choose wet-xreal for the engine) Also, don't forget that xreal has some problems with (especially older) ATI hardware (it randomly freezes on my pc since one of the autumn 2009 revisions for example, inverts heathaze effects on some cards, liquidmap is broken, &c).
Still, dynamic lighting (together with bump and parallax mapped geometry) in Xreal is incredible and adds a lot to the grungey look.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:08 pm 
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Marksman
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Quote:
It's GNU GPL so it needs all derivative works to be GNU GPL too :p

When Coroner make changes to the original source code or fork it, yes. But he can still distribute his own binary code under his own license, since it just based on the engine, but doesn't change the engine itself.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:38 pm 
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coroner wrote:
Some ppl of the core game community and the developer found an non-legal, non-profit organization, lets call it the Trusted Player Club (TPC) for the time being.

The TCP has its own TCP game based on a GPL game which is developed inside the TPC. The game is not released to the public. The game is only shared inside the entity of the organization were it can be distributed without sharing the source and along with a non-disclosure agreement without violating the GPL.

Ppl are free to become a member of the TCP by agreeing to test TCPs game without cheating and hacking for the sake of fun and by paying a fee of 5 bucks to retrieve their individual member ID.

The organization's board can withdraw IDs if the servers tracking of the player behaviour indicates cheating.


This with "private" game will suck no chalange at all allways same ppl playing it will getting boring

And for paying ID's won't help either coz 5 $ for kids is nothing they will buy ID's allways they get banned

Is any chance to get VAC from steam or any other anti-cheat tool ? (GameShield suck)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:19 pm 
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luka wrote:
Is any chance to get VAC from steam or any other anti-cheat tool ? (GameShield suck)

PB is the best anticheat available if you mix it with streaming to pbbans (extended features).
This is not perfect but have a look at pbbans : cod4 nearly got as many bans as ET in less time. It means they improved a lot.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:58 am 
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]Wo0[ wrote:
luka wrote:
Is any chance to get VAC from steam or any other anti-cheat tool ? (GameShield suck)

PB is the best anticheat available if you mix it with streaming to pbbans (extended features).
This is not perfect but have a look at pbbans : cod4 nearly got as many bans as ET in less time. It means they improved a lot.


Agreed. Punkbuster is best

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:24 pm 
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Sharp Shooter
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Disgarding the fact that PB isn't perfect, isn't it posible to load the original PB functions using loadlibrary ? ('just' track all calls when a certain event is raised, eg. player connect, and simulate it)

I'd love to make a better anticheat project, but really got no time to develop such a thing.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:22 pm 
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but pb is still best of them :P

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:22 pm 
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For me, PB is almost unuseful...
- You can easily change of GUID.
- Screenshots are more and more often black because of video drivers.
- It induces lags.
- It can be easily defeated.
- Even about scan of cvars or md5tools, it is not efficient.
- Functions like bans by IP/range can be done with iptables.
- It gives a lot of false postive like with HoverSnap
- Streaming is just diffusion of the GUID of a *cheap* cheater to protect other servers which would detect him the same.

Nowadays, PB is the "anti-cheat of the poor" or "anti cheap cheater".
No serious cheater is disturbed by PB anymore.
It is just to give you the feeling the server is protected just because you have setup plenty of rules in a config file.
I know some servers on W:ET where it has been totally disabled, experience of *real admins* (I mean responsible people, not children playing the god with the power they have) is judged as sufficient.

I don't think it's a good idea to make pay even 5 bucks for a GUID, the purpose of the game is to stay free about money and engagement.
Anyone should have the right to play (even some cheaters who can have tried *for the fun* one time).
But instead of this, we could implement a system of GUID based on a x509 certificate delivered by a central server (why not this one).
It's easy to implement, a self-signed CA key is enough.
The system could even be done server by server with the main, so only trusted people could enter on this server.
If the key is revoked, it will be for all the servers (and require a new registration).
Of course, this system would be optional, like it is about to install or not PB.
And it zould avoid to have this backdoor/trojan which has access to any resource/file of the computer as SYSTEM service (especially when we consider how much *efficient* it is)


@dutchmeat: nice idea, but I think it is a bit more complex than just to call directly some functions in .dll/.so, it would be to much easy to fool...
They surely included some inline code, obfuscation and checksums to avoid quick reverse...
In the worst case, we could recompile the source and compare the executable with the original one... and to patch the old one with some new code with PRELOAD/dll injection at startup :P

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:25 am 
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[FanT]AsthMaTiK wrote:
For me, PB is almost unuseful...
- You can easily change of GUID.
- Screenshots are more and more often black because of video drivers.
- It induces lags.
- It can be easily defeated.
- Even about scan of cvars or md5tools, it is not efficient.
- Functions like bans by IP/range can be done with iptables.
- It gives a lot of false postive like with HoverSnap
- Streaming is just diffusion of the GUID of a *cheap* cheater to protect other servers which would detect him the same.

- GUID : yep this is the main problem for ET, etpro did try some stuff (etpro guid) but in the end it didnt fix the issue. Like i said for playing TCE registering and getting one ID per player would improve, but there are always ways to *i-need-a-broader-vocab* it up.
- PBSS : like you said its mostly external to PB and compatibility related.
- LAG : noone can deny this.
- EFFICIENCY : i cant agree here, all public hacks are detected and the past tell us private hacks got detected too, its only a question of time.
- FALSE POSITIVE : bans are reversed & bugs fixed quiete fast.
- STREAM : Again this is a big improvement, pbbans is requesting generic cvar scans & bind scans, it did catch tons of private hacks users.

On some point i agree with you asthmatik PB isnt perfect but this is the most evolved system atm but ET is old and they dont support ET like they support newer games even if you see new violations coming (so they didnt leave it alone).
Getting an edited ET without PB would be just bullshit like ioq3, urban terror, etc ... this will just make things easier for cheaters (look all 3rd party AC just didnt change anything and didnt catch as much as cheaters as PB does).

The real solution is to get active admins cleaning their servers, why keeping known cheaters (got caught tons of times) in the servers ...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:06 am 
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]Wo0[ wrote:
[FanT]AsthMaTiK wrote:
For me, PB is almost unuseful...
- You can easily change of GUID.
- Screenshots are more and more often black because of video drivers.
- It induces lags.
- It can be easily defeated.
- Even about scan of cvars or md5tools, it is not efficient.
- Functions like bans by IP/range can be done with iptables.
- It gives a lot of false postive like with HoverSnap
- Streaming is just diffusion of the GUID of a *cheap* cheater to protect other servers which would detect him the same.

- GUID : yep this is the main problem for ET, etpro did try some stuff (etpro guid) but in the end it didnt fix the issue. Like i said for playing TCE registering and getting one ID per player would improve, but there are always ways to *i-need-a-broader-vocab* it up.
- PBSS : like you said its mostly external to PB and compatibility related.
- LAG : noone can deny this.
- EFFICIENCY : i cant agree here, all public hacks are detected and the past tell us private hacks got detected too, its only a question of time.
- FALSE POSITIVE : bans are reversed & bugs fixed quiete fast.
- STREAM : Again this is a big improvement, pbbans is requesting generic cvar scans & bind scans, it did catch tons of private hacks users.

On some point i agree with you asthmatik PB isnt perfect but this is the most evolved system atm but ET is old and they dont support ET like they support newer games even if you see new violations coming (so they didnt leave it alone).
Getting an edited ET without PB would be just bullshit like ioq3, urban terror, etc ... this will just make things easier for cheaters (look all 3rd party AC just didnt change anything and didnt catch as much as cheaters as PB does).

The real solution is to get active admins cleaning their servers, why keeping known cheaters (got caught tons of times) in the servers ...


Just going to say that europe haves a lot smaller problem with hackers in my experience :wink:

Urban terror wont have shitloads off hackers i have saw only three in half year perioid. But some servers (like bOObs euro) have always clean server. Once i saw message on consol saying "aimbot detected" and it told that hacker was banned and how long it was on server hmm it was 3 minutes.

Also the bOObs have organized their servers extremely well. If you got banned for causing accidentaly over some damage limit you can enter to another bOObs server but when you get banned because of hax or too much team killing. You may not enter to other server.

Okay thats offtopic :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:34 pm 
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I tried too look for some alternatives, that are open source software, be cause I think PB will quit supporting ET, so it's good to have an alternative.

ET AntiCheatEffort, was a project for et. While it was open source, the cheat signatures were closed source. Unfortunately I can't find any working link in the web. Maybe someone knows the developer, so its possible to create a fork?

The other idea I had, was to build an anti cheating tool bases on ClamAV. Either use ClamAV itself, and feed it with cheat signatures, or create a fork which is implemented into ETs source code.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:42 pm 
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rofl ... EAC is a dead born project.
At 1st it was developped by foxdie (from pbbans) and chaplja (cheat coder).
foxdie left the boat then chaplja went back to selling hacks and source code.
Now chaplja is supposed to come back to the anticheat side (lol) by developping SLAC which simply needs to turn PB off ...

Seriously who will you trust ? a company which has several employees who are paid for this or a cheat coder who never finished his projects (apart hacks) ?

If PB support is going to be dropped then its the end of streaming to pbbans, in such a case -> private lans and private matches with people you trust all the way.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:18 pm 
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What about X-ray ? is good ?

And there is many plugins for VAC

zblock
steamid.eu
Copied from
https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=1244559

1)HLGuard (It disable some wallhack by not sending some data to the client ) .
2)CSF Anti cheat (detect some of the cheats like CDhack , ECC hack , Firefighter hack ... and lock some wallhack)
3)Hack Hunter (good but with a lots of false detection )
4)Aimwarn (detects some of the aimbots by some stupid calculation )
5)anti aim (same as Aimwarn but not so advanced )
6)CSF opengl hack detector (detects some of the opengl hack )
7)Reallite HLguard along with HLGuard (tune ups HlGuard to detect more cheats)
Zeta anti cheat (best anti cheat server side -- but its still in alpha run and has a lots of bugs ... It detects some false speedhack if somebody minimize there CS )
9)Wallhack blocker (best wallhack blocker ..but the problem is that client have to download a lots of sound files other wise he will not hear any sound ...it uses more system resource ...but less internet bandwidth )

But personally from my experience as a ADMIN , I recommend you
1)HlGuard - only on wallhack and burst fire option
2)Anti CSDOS (to prevent dos attack )
3)ADMINS


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