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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:05 pm 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
Does a carpenter varnish the wood before it is made into a chair?


but he does afterwards, to give the chair a layer that protects the chair from rotting ect.

XenoKiLLer wrote:
Do I put icing on dough before baking it into a cake? I think not.


but u do it after u baked it, or else it wouldnt be a cake.

so simply put, "details r importent"

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:30 pm 
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Yeah, after the game is finished. is TCE finished? No it isnt, it is still in Public Beta "Testing" version 0 built 49b. Case closed.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:36 pm 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
Yeah, after the game is finished. is TCE finished? No it isnt, it is still in Public Beta "Testing" version 0 built 49b.


what!???

you know xeno, sometimes u are really really dont make any sense,

TCE?????? did u even read the first post?

XenoKiLLer wrote:
Case closed.


no u didnt closed the case, u just opened a new bizarre case that leaves me clueless because the case just doesnt make any sense,

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:10 pm 
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Gee, Im not sure what part of those anologies you did not get.

Does a carpenter varnish the wood before it is made into a chair?

That says in simpler english, The carpenter hasnt completed building his chair, does he put varnish on it already? No

Therefore, TCE doesnt need your ideas of eyecandy just yet as it isnt finished yet.

We do not need these yet. TCE is not done, TCE is not ready to add loads more useless things. They havent even released the next version yet, one that has already layed out its planned 'new feature' set and here you are throwing a lot of things that are unneccessary. it would do the game alot better to be finished with all its gameplay features and bother about eyecandy after version 1.00.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:31 pm 
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The topic nazi inside me is screaming to close this thread before it becomes more off-topic, but it's still at least going in the right direction.

just look at what the developers say, it's an open beta. they're still changing around the maps, adding gameplay features and weapons, this chair is still having it's parts cut out.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:26 pm 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
Therefore, TCE doesnt need your ideas of eyecandy just yet as it isnt finished yet.


read:
Dragonathan wrote:
i dont get it, with all the newest software technology and such, why am i still not able to see my legs and feet from first person view in allot of games?

imo, if u can see the arms and legs on the screen, u should also be able to see the legs and feet on the screen whenever u look down,

but u shouldnt only see your legs and feet when u look down, u should also see your chest and stomach, thats also realistic,

no -->this is not a suggestion<-- thats why its in the offtopic, but i find this intresting to discuss with the community,


wich part of the post did you not understand?

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:28 pm 
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Look then, how many times do I have to say that developers charge a lot more for uneccessary things. All games are made on a limited budget. They have to utilize that budget to get art, code, music, promotion, and testing for their product. They have to sqeeuze every once of time and money they can before the deadline to make a game why bother making something that wont even affect the gameplay at all?

Try playing Armed Assualt I think that has what you are looking for.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:04 pm 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
why bother making making something that wont even affect the gameplay at all?


the model's skins wont effect the gameplay
the wallpaper skins wont affect the gameplay
bullet impact animation wont affect the gameplay
motion capture wont affect the gameplay,

i can keep on going, no, they wont affect the gameplay, but they do shape the game,
like said, its important not to only look at the graphics, or gameplay only, its important to look at the whole game design"everything"
well at least thats how i judge a game, i look at the whole game design, even the little tiny details,

Quote:
They have to sqeeuze every once of time and money they can before the deadline


if game developers r hasting, u will always get crappy games, look at EA, they keep releasing new games at a fast pace, but look at most of their games, they all look crap, low quality ect.,

look at developers like kojima, hes working like 3 or 4 years on 1 game, and when the game is released, its always looks unbelievable beautiful.... he thought of every detail, an he always gets a high score on the overall design of the games he made, good story line, good art designs, good character designs, and all his characters in game are memorable, i still remember all the bosses from MGS 1, 2, and 3, i even remember all the maps, because he thought of the small little details,
big things makes a game popular, but it is the little things that makes a game memorable,

but thats because he designs his games with passion, and not with haste or with a greed for money,

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:15 pm 
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Dude, what you will always be looking at in the game is part of the gameplay, having a function to look at your legs doesnt because that doesnt really do anything does it? What matter sis that you can move, you can do what you need to do, and you can see the enemy and the map. Seeing yourself is just not needed. You can keep giving these sorry excuses but really, looking at your legs just isnt needed.

If you really wanted games where you can look at your legs, try a handful, such as FEAR and Armed Assualt. Youll like ArmA better as I believe you can look at your entire body and see the wounds. Sure that is realistic, but its impractical to add for technical reasons such as limits, deadlines, budget, and software issues/limits/production.

Just because you want it doesnt mean the rest of us want it, we gave our opinion on it, you gave yours, neither of us can change each others opinions so there is no point to continuing this thread. If you ever get into game development, you will appreciate the value of keeping things simple as this business is not as easy going and child's play as most people may think.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:25 pm 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
You can keep giving these sorry excuses but really, looking at your legs just isnt needed.
.


excuses?
i dont think im giving excuses, im just giving my opinions
u dont mind if a game claimed to be "realistic" if u cant even see the legs and feet, but i do mind if a game claimed to be "realistic" when i only can see my arms and hands but not my legs,
but that doesnt mean i have to stop the debate,

i posted the thread to discuss and debate, you participated it, so dont beg me to stop the discussion/debate,

if u dont like to debate and discuss, than dont reply, quit yourself,
but i like debating and discussing, so i wanna keep going,

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:00 pm 
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the quake 3 engine can't handle it anyway. if it could, CoD would have had it.

also, it's a minor detail.the money you lose for the two or three people who won't buy the game because of it you more than make up for with decreased development costs.

assuming it takes 1 week to model/skin/animate a body/legs system, and assuming that there are 2 unique teams that need them, by simply leaving that out, you get an extra $1,153.85, assuming your modelers/animators/skinners are paid $30000 per year, which is probably a low estimate.

all that does is sell a handful more copies, maybe even LOSING sales, because it bumps up system requirements.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:46 am 
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it wrote:
the quake 3 engine can't handle it anyway. if it could, CoD would have had it.

also, it's a minor detail.the money you lose for the two or three people who won't buy the game because of it you more than make up for with decreased development costs.

assuming it takes 1 week to model/skin/animate a body/legs system, and assuming that there are 2 unique teams that need them, by simply leaving that out, you get an extra $1,153.85, assuming your modelers/animators/skinners are paid $30000 per year, which is probably a low estimate.

all that does is sell a handful more copies, maybe even LOSING sales, because it bumps up system requirements.


Its not that the engine cant, its just that it doesnt do that. The camera is placed somewhere around the torso level. The firstperson visible gun and limbs arent really part of the thirdperson visible model, so there is for first person head, torso, or legs to see, just the gun/arms. In the case of reflections, what you see is the third person model. This explains why the first person gun positions and the thirdperson models dont match.

Next, since the camera is at the torso level, looking up and down pivots the torso by the hip or pelvic. This moves the camera up and down by the pelvic, however the fulcrum isnt exactly where the camera is. if it were, legs should be visible - however going back to the part where the firstperson model doesnt have any. Also, the position of the camera and the design of the rendering engine doesnt have a field of vision to actually look that far down with the torso alreadt 90 degrees against the legs.

In JupiterX2 engine, the firstperson model is the third person model, and unlike in Quake3E, the camera is at the head, and when you look up or down, the gun points up or down and so does the head, not the torso - with the head-camera closer to its pivot point, the next, the viewing angle shows much more of the area close to your feet, hence you can see your legs - the difference now, is that the firstperson model is the thirdperson model too.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:06 am 
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Play Fear

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:15 am 
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That was unnecessary as I alredy mentioned that several times but yes, play FEAR or better yet ArmA. In ArmA as I believe, you can even see your entire body - only the realistic part ofcourse, you cant see your own back end in real life unless it sticks out that much.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:20 am 
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Sorry Xeno, I just didn't feel like reading.

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