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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:15 pm 
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Xeno is right. If you depict too much gore people are going to get the impression that it's getting more arcadey, and that could run a lot of people off.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:11 pm 
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That wasnt exactly what I mean by controvery but sure....

Dragon, violence is not what attracts gamers to play games, if that was the cas ethen we live in a sad sad hopeless little world which would be better off seeing the armageddon very early.

There is a point where the blood and gore will turn people off as that is no fun anymore.

What makes a game fun is how it is played and what experiences it can give you that you cant possible have in real life. As humans we have an active consciousness that is capable of complexed though and reasoning - violent behaviour is without reason but acts only upon emotion. Any normal human would be turned off by gore - simply shown by the fact that everyone wont be able to stand the smell of rotting corpses on their first time or two. Sure you can kill people in the game - that is only in a game though, in real life you will see that is much harder to pull the trigger not because you arent as strong as you think but because you reasoning tell's you it is not acceptable in human society. Human children are raised with the morals and values that the adults have learn through their life there is no chance that any normal (no prior mental problems) human - unless you were raised by wolves - to lust for blood.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:39 am 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
Dragon, violence is not what attracts gamers to play games, if that was the cas ethen we live in a sad sad hopeless little world which would be better off seeing the armageddon very early.


look how populare GTA is, and much more games that contain allot of violence are very popular, why does violence attract allot of people? because violence is something u cant and shouldnt do in real life, and its absolutely not allowed, but if you put that in game, people are able to escape from the reality, and thats what make violent games so popular. and im not even suggestion to cut evryones head off, all im suggesting are more gruesome effects such as a dead mother holding a little child or baby, it gives TCe a more realistic darkish feel,

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Last edited by Dragonathan on Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:07 pm 
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I actually want to agree with Dragon here - albeit partially.

It's true most people would love to cave at least some morons head in- its human nature to kill the stupid ones of our species. But we can't do it to a 'real' person, not just because of the consequences - thats just cowards who don't want to take responsibility of their actions - but for the effect it has on yourself; I don't truely know if I could live with myself after taking anothers life.

Thats where games come in.

Games are a form of escapism, where we can do things we can't in real everyday life- such as relive WW2, drive supercars, pilot fighter jets, live again after dieing, make huge ammounts of cash in a matter of days, cast spells or fight sword against sword in fantasy environments - to name but a few.

So my point in all of this is that if the players do want the TCE game world to be 'darker' and more 'gritty', and therefore more realistic, then so be it.

Remember the world isn't a nice place, being realistic would have to reflect that-- soldiers are nothing more than professionals doing a job they get paid for. War is just another job.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:38 pm 
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I'm fine with corpses, maybe even dead animals, but dead babies would just make the devs look like sadists.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:08 pm 
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<TCF>Buschman wrote:
I actually want to agree with Dragon here - albeit partially.

It's true most people would love to cave at least some morons head in- its human nature to kill the stupid ones of our species. But we can't do it to a 'real' person, not just because of the consequences - thats just cowards who don't want to take responsibility of their actions - but for the effect it has on yourself; I don't truely know if I could live with myself after taking anothers life.

Thats where games come in.

Games are a form of escapism, where we can do things we can't in real everyday life- such as relive WW2, drive supercars, pilot fighter jets, live again after dieing, make huge ammounts of cash in a matter of days, cast spells or fight sword against sword in fantasy environments - to name but a few.

So my point in all of this is that if the players do want the TCE game world to be 'darker' and more 'gritty', and therefore more realistic, then so be it.

Remember the world isn't a nice place, being realistic would have to reflect that-- soldiers are nothing more than professionals doing a job they get paid for. War is just another job.


Dark and gritty isnt excessive. There is a line which defines the difference. Look at Casino Royale, it was meant to be dark and grittier than all the other Bonds with their fancy gadgets. However not once did they resort to showing excess gore. CoD recreates the gritty feeling of WWII quite accurately without having to show the gore. There are alternatives to blood gore, which ar estill violent, but do not go over the line.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:22 am 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
but do not go over the line.


adding more realisim isnt going over the line,
cutting someone head of with a chain saw is going over the line,

dude... u play way too much pc games, ur missing allot of great stuff in the gaming scene, u should really go play some console games sometimes,

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:29 am 
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Excuse me ! btw, M rated doesnt necessarily mean it has to be gory. It simply means that the theme is recommended for people 17 years and older.

TCE is better the way it is, if you wanted bloody there are games like Condemned to please the players who want that kind of game. Better still one of the biggest proofs that gore isnt necessary in M rated games is the predescessor of all military themed shooters that started it all - Counter Strike - It is still the most popular FPS game online, it is M rated, and yet there barely is any blood there isnt even any gore.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:38 pm 
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PErfect Dark got an M rating because it showed some blood spatter.

besides, gore isn't part of TC:E's theme. Though it does show modern combat, the majority of the places that skirmishes take place are industrial. about the only people I can see hanging around the places that TC:E is going into are
a) employees of the area, which probably fled
or
b) criminals, probably as well armed as the mercenaries.


I think the stuff they have in the one map (gah! forgot it's name! it's the new one for .49) is good enough.

also,

ESRB wrote:
TEEN
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.


to get your game rated M, all it takes is a little bit more violence and blood.

also, the "terrorist" side is made up mercenaries. at the current state of the game, thier goal is to destroy industrial targets, which would really hurt the economy of the target country. why the hell would you kil more people than you have to. rmember, every kill you make is another murder charge, therefore, ruthless slaughter != a good idea.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:40 pm 
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and that is a little. T and M are the top selling ratings and devolopers will usualy aim for these. Going way over the top with gore - as in making it real and boyond real will only get you an AO rating which does mean less people playing.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:39 pm 
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Gears Of War anyone?

Perhaps I was being a little unclear in my post- I didn't mean to condone the dead children and mothers, just that there be more 'obj_stalindrad style' corpses- make it really feel like the terrorists had really pissed off the anti-t's by executing hostages, etc- hence the armed responce with orders to kill on sight.

Lets face it, that is 'realistic' because anti-t's have ROE, meaning 90% of the time they will only try to neutralise the terrorists- take as many back alive for interrogation, in the hope of finding out who their employer is, and if they knew of any other hits, etc.

Personally the only way besides actual interrogation being put in the game to make it more 'gritty' is to beef up the realism of the actual firefights- make the bullets HURT, make them actually have some momentum behind them, so they do make you disorientated, and that you can bleed to death by sprinting with a bullet in your thigh, make it really feel like the Anti-T's have NO OTHER CHOICE but to terminate on sight.
Because right now it just seems like they are thrown in there to kill a bunch of terrorists, knowing full well the terrorists are trying to plant a bomb and are just told to kill anything that isn't their teammates.
How did they know? How did they get there at te exact same time the T's did? If they knew, why didn't they set up an ambush rather than just an assault team to fight?




I've just had an idea while typing this;

The current mapping 'sceme'. So far, it seems the maps are relatively small (bad), have multiple routes (good), and always involve both teams sprinting towards each other to get to the choke points (Read: Bombsites/camping spots) first (bad).

Why not have a map sceme such as the following:

[T's spawn][Deadground][Anti's spawn][Objective(s)]

That way it truely does seem like the terrorists are assaulting a place, which the Antis ARE defending.

Just a thought really...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:37 am 
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I really do not believe that a law enforcement team would be given the order to kill on sight. (TCE player models actually closely resemble police more than military)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:09 am 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
I really do not believe that a law enforcement team would be given the order to kill on sight. (TCE player models actually closely resemble police more than military)


technically, they can. if they feel that they are signifigantly endangering thier (or other's) lives, they may fire. if you jump from around a corner at a cop, they can shoot you. in a situation where they are considered heavily armed and very dangerous, similar to the BoA robbery in '97, they are legally allowed to shoot on sight. they usually will try to avoid casualties, but in many cases, they are in the right to shoot (in SWAT 4, for example, if a suspect points a weapon at you in an agressive manner, and you don't shoot him, the AI players will)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:37 am 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
Excuse me ! btw, M rated doesnt necessarily mean it has to be gory. It simply means that the theme is recommended for people 17 years and older.


when i saw your real age in the age thread, i knew you must be much younger than me, cause you seem to lack allot of life experience and allot of wisdom,

dude, M rated doesnt mean it has to be gory indeed, but M rated means that graphical realistic violence r allowed, did i ever said that M rated means gory or something? guess not, so dont put words in my mouth, all i was saying that if devs did added some realistic gruesome in the game that it wouldnt be such a big deal since the game is M rated,

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:10 am 
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rating is one thing.

taste is another.


dead babies are all well and good in jokes (like the famous garage one) but depicting it graphically in a game would cross the borders of decency.

dead bodies like stadtrand, sure, why not. dead bodies of children, NO.

NO!

if it was implemented, I would organise a boycott/petition for the game until they are removed and an apology is made.

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