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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:22 am 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:

Dragon, randomly generating maps is a thing of the past,.


dude.. its not rendomly generated, it really can build for itself, they did a review on game kings they were really impressed, ps3 can really think for itself,
for example, a building could look different in evry match, a rock can look different in evrymatch, its like the engine modeled the models for it's self, that is sureley not a thing from the past mann...

pc's dont have as many revolutionairy games like consoles,
allot of console games are pioneers in the gaming industry, allot of console games changed the gaming industry, more than pc games.

now heres my prove that consoles have more veriaty of games, click this website: http://www.gametrailers.com

check out all the pc games, you will notice that most of them are strategy and RPG and FPS, thats its... now check out the console games, allot of different genre, way better.

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Last edited by Dragonathan on Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:59 pm 
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look at console games through the years. a good 80-90% have been ported to PC, if not designed for PC initially. yes, there are console exclusives, but that's where emulators come in.name a game from a system older than the PS2 and I can probably find it. from sucesses like SMB to failures like E.T. (hell, I could dig one of those out of a dump.but I wouldn't want to)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:34 pm 
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I hate having to explain to people what AI and thinking really is. PS3 cannot think it can only run and initiate software commands. A computer creating its own maps is called random generation. A person creating a map is like random generation, except that us humans as superior beigns compared to the computer have futher detailed control of how we want our final product to look. All in all it is still random generation.

If the PS3 can really think, it should be able to do things on its own - such as, turn itself on when you enter the room by its own instinct not a motion sensor switch. I had to explain the same situation for people before when it came to FarCry's AI - which seemed to be really AI - just like FEAR, but all in all was just a scripted program. If these machines really had the capacity to think - much more create a 3d dimentional world that they (as machines) can willing choose on thier own (note that I refer to them as people) how to create - then that is thinking. Yet, these machines are missing a key concept to intelligence -they cannot learn and act upon thier own choices - instead they rely on a preset numbe rof choices created by the programmer taken and ran in random order - therefore that is called random generation.

If it is between you and me, I know my science, I know my programming, and I definetely know my computers and software. Remember you are reading reviews from other gamers, not scientists from NASA, what they say you cannot guarantee as scientific fact but naive explainations of what one does not understand much like a child thinking that parents can just get money out of the bank anytime they want to.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:19 pm 
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sony have buildt aibo's , it was a robot dog that could think for itself,
if it was prescripted than the robot they made would move the same directions each time, but aibo's didnt,

what makes you think that sony isnt even capable of making a game think for itself?

and stop with that NASA shit, NASA is just a rip-off of a russian project,
why do you admire NASA so much? they just have allot of money, but when it comes to creativity i have to give my props to the russians, they can create amazing stuff for very less money,

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:35 pm 
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So dont use NASA, lets use CERN scientists. That robo dog cant think for itself. The design is based on having the "machine" run program codes that control the mechanical parts such as motors based upon visual and audio stimuli.

To prove that it could think, take it to the grand canyon and tell it to jump off the cliff. If it does jump off then it doesnt think or they could add a failsafe that prevents it from moving anywhere with no ground or steep slopes. If it could think, it would turn around and tell you why it wont jump on it's own decision not based from any preprogrammed software. If you dont understand a thing I said, go take a course on robotics and programming.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:56 pm 
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another example of AI and computers "thinking" is the bots in many games, especially HL2, and the CS bots. they are scripted to do things. they have waypoints they follow, and yes, in advanced AI systems, like the bots in CS, and the AI in HL2, know when they are boxed in, however, it is programmed to change its route after a while (if you shove one somewhere, say if there's a fork in the road, it heads to one side, but you force it to another, it walks into the wall until the software tells it to do.)

and don't say "the PS3 is more advanced" if you play the PS3 port of HL2, which runs on the SAME engine, you get consistent results. it all depends on the programming.

computers cannot "think" for themselves, until we can create ones that can dynamically change the programs they run on, and that will not be available to military organizations/governments for at LEAST another 3-4 years, never mind the 2-3 years required for it to be available to civvies, they will only do what they are told to do initially when programmed, and not truly "think". yes, there are robots and such that can in a sense "re-program" themselves, but what they do, is evaluate thier surroundings using pre-created software, then switch to a certain program for that environment.


though I may not be an expert on the subject, I know enough to say that it will take a while to come along. yes, technology is always changing, and often faster than we think it can, but it is not available now, even to the highest military organizatons, and I know this, because if they were doing research and made ANY breakthroughs, I would hear about it. I haven't heard anything yet....

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:05 am 
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Building up on what it said, true Ai and thinking machines have not been invented yet. No military in thw world even has real working AI. America's Army for one uses a US Airforce military grade trainer AI system - turns out, even the worst of AA players can outsmart them mostly because they are only dynamically scripted to initiate a rondom script depending on stimuli or what the player does.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:27 pm 
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there is many definitions behind "thinking for itself"

if a robot is capable of noticing a wall, than i call that "thinking for itself"

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:45 pm 
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Thats what you call it, I call that "using range finding devices to provide stimuli to initiate a pre scripted code to stop and turn around" which is exactly what it is. believe me here, I know robotics, I know programming, I know how to make machines do that.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:15 pm 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
Thats what you call it, I call that "using range finding devices to provide stimuli to initiate a pre scripted code to stop and turn around" which is exactly what it is. believe me here, I know robotics, I know programming, I know how to make machines do that.


finding = thinking for itself
stop and turn around = thinking for itself

but like i said, evryone has his own perspective of the meaning "thinking for itself"

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:02 pm 
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/me loads shotgun and aims at himself.


Dragon, please stop trying to prove people who know what they are talking about wrong.

Would you tell a rocket scientist how to make rockets work? No.

Would you tell the Dev's what line of code they need next? No.


Something does not instantly "think for itself" if it reacts to things.

You know the street lights out lining your roads? Are they on all day or only at night? What about when big strom clouds make it all dark, they turn on, right?
How do you think they know when to turn on? Do you think there is just some guy who flips a switch and every light in the contry starts up?

Hell no. Each lamp has a small circuit board which senses when light hits it, and tells itself to stay off. When no lights hit it, it triggers a switch, and the light turns on.

Do you call that thinking for itself?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:19 pm 
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Thats what it looks like he is saying. Dragon, if it was programed by humans to do things then when sometihng happens, it is not thinknig for itself.

That machine does not have any eye, or ears, or a sense of touch, it cannot smell, it cannot taste. The machine has a rangefinder to tell distance, it has a microphone to take sound, it is a motion sensor to detect touch and movement aswell as direction. All these components gather and send information it it's CPU, the CPU then runs the appropriate script to control the mechanical parts. Being able to think means being alive - do you call that toy a living thing.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:03 pm 
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<TCF>Buschman wrote:
/me loads shotgun and aims at himself.

Dragon, please stop trying to prove people who know what they are talking about wrong.


i think you need to stop posting garbage, your just eat up the space of the hole thread,

but for your information:
i wasnt trying to prove that people are wrong, i was sharing my perspective and opinion,

<TCF>Buschman wrote:
Would you tell a rocket scientist how to make rockets work? No.

Would you tell the Dev's what line of code they need next? No.


and would Buschman get a grip of him self and start realising that evrything he post is bunch of useless comments? No.

<TCF>Buschman wrote:
You know the street lights out lining your roads? Are they on all day or only at night? What about when big strom clouds make it all dark, they turn on, right?
How do you think they know when to turn on? Do you think there is just some guy who flips a switch and every light in the contry starts up?

Hell no. Each lamp has a small circuit board which senses when light hits it, and tells itself to stay off. When no lights hit it, it triggers a switch, and the light turns on.

Do you call that thinking for itself?


yes.. i see that as primitive thinking,

but we can discuss this for hours but im gonna stop right here, as i said evryone has his own perspective of "thinking for itself"

now back on topic:

consoles have more veriaty of games,
here are 2 top gaming websites:
www.ign.com
www.gametrailers.com

go check out console games and pc games, you will see that consoles have more games than pc, and most pc games are RPG, FPS, and STRATEGY/topdown view games.

or go check out some game magazines, you will notice that most reviews are console games.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:44 pm 
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you, sir, are wrong about the variety. if you even looked outside your harrow-minded bias against anything not-sony, you'd notice that PCs have as many, if not more, typed of games as consoles. name three (3) gae styles that you think are for consoles only, and I shall find some games for PC that are of that genre.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:04 pm 
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like i said go visit these website:

www.ign.com
www.gametrailers.com

check pc games and check out console games,
you will notice that consoles have more veriaty of games,

and check this out:
http://www.gamekings.tv/
check out their review videos,
best game reviewers of europe...
and all the reviews they give are 95% console games, and if they do a reviews for a pc games than its probably strategy or FPS

^does someone has to say something about why that?^ :roll:

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