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 Post subject: cell processor:PS3
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:11 pm 
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representing ps3:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php? ... 9&type=wmv

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:01 pm 
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Looks good but you cant expect to beleive everything they say. I myself dont even believe everything Microsoft says, or what Intel says. Unless I see it for myself or the general public gives their opinion. The opinion of one person and especially the opinion of the person/s who have connections to the topic (in that case Sony for the PS3, and for the 360 and Windows, Bill gates) can't gaurantee what they say is all truth.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:46 pm 
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The cell will be far better than the ordinary processors, however I do think it is being hyped to be greater than it really is. Cell technology has been highly anticipated by tech junkies, and it will blow current processors out of the water, too bad that there will be no support for cells on PC any time soon.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:30 pm 
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PCs dont need that. That is what the multicore processors are for, aswell as SLI/Crossfire links and Physics cards. Cell processors are new and most likely to exhibit problems than tried but truely functional and known stable hardware such as existing multicore processors. If the PS3 stuck with using Quad core processors with 4 SLI-linked graphics cards and a physics card, then I and many others could safely say that it is more stable.

When buying a computer or console or anything of the like, it isnt only performance that I and many others look for, but stability. I wouldnt spend money on something that breaks down often, quickly, or is known to or expected to have so many possible problems. If Sony took the time to have those cell processors compete against PC processors and actually do good, then that is a clear sign that they are stable enough to be part of a $700 investment for a console. In their case they put it right away in said $700 investment which leaves the question of stability and possible issues floating right above it, pretty much like the 360 itself with its next gen hardware.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:37 am 
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I'm not saying i like xbox360 better... well i do but lest say you have a ferrari enzo vs a porsche 911, oka the ferrari is better, but if i have 3 times the power of the porsche 911, of course it will beat the ferrari... Same thing with xbox 360, it has 3 processors vs 1( sony )... Dont tell me the ps3 still beats the 360 with one, come on...

hmmmm i just saw the video ... yup it doesnt impress me... The way he talks just makes me want to puke, ya a ps3 can save you're life , come on its just talk and blah blah... Anyway it take a computer to *i-need-a-broader-vocab* make a ps3 so why the hell would it be that powerfull...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:56 am 
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I agree with fry, they're hyped too much. Kinda like carbonm-fiber for cars when it came out. new and exciting, but in the end, going to lose appeal.


BTW, the PS3 is gonna have a bunch of bugs, and there's gonna be a lot of complaining when they're found.... it's inevitable with all consoles/OS's

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:10 am 
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it wrote:
BTW, the PS3 is gonna have a bunch of bugs, and there's gonna be a lot of complaining when they're found.... it's inevitable with all consoles/OS's


All new consoles do

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:23 am 
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Quote:
Same thing with xbox 360, it has 3 processors vs 1( sony )... Dont tell me the ps3 still beats the 360 with one, come on...


Please look at what a cell processor is, and what it can do. Cells have 8 cores that can work at the same time, running at 3.2 gigs (Or more, can't remember0 while the XboX 360 has 3 processors (An old type of processor, but the best intel processor for using more than 1 processor.) running at 3.2 gigs. The cell processor allows more things to be processed at the same time, so it can perform more complicated task with out straining the processor. Xbox's processors is no match for Sony's cell. (You can fins better info on Cell tech else where, I don't get into the hardware to much)
However, I can tell you that XboX is behind on the processor.
EDIT: Sony's cell, not all cells. If I'm not mistaken, some companies are working on cells with more cores. Also, cells are a whole new type do multicores, they work together better than current dual cores, by using a completely different architecture, which I don't understand, so I will not try to explain it.


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BTW, the PS3 is gonna have a bunch of bugs, and there's gonna be a lot of complaining when they're found.... it's inevitable with all consoles/OS's


I'm not saying that it will not have bugs, but Sony already knew of this, and thus dedicated 1 of its cells as a back up and works as a redundant processor, picking up where one fails. This isn't a complete cure, but it will prevent any major issues. Furthermore, the few xbox 360 games I've played there were more bugs than in morrowind elder scrolls 3, which if you ever played, then you would know that that's a lot of bugs (That is an over exaggeration, but not entirely false). If you ever had the bug from morrowind 4 where you XboX 360 starts to crash a lot, then you would hate the XboX 360 (This is a known issue, and many people had to turn in their XboX 360's to fix the problem, which can come back even on the new XboX's. Also, this isn't isolated to morrorwind, there are a few others, but morrowind is the one who got the heat for it.) Ever console, every OS and every high end piece of hardware (Points at some of the last high end video cards).

I only say that to point out that there will be nothing special, bug wise, about the PS3, it will just have it's bugs, and programmers will have to find away around them as they progress.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:31 am 
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All I can say is....

can we PLEASE just stop talking about the PS3 (at least till it's release).
I've heard way too much Cell-processor this and best gaming system ever that.... can't we just save the speculation and wait for some cold hard facts?

I mean cumon... the PS3 has been sooooo very overoveroveroverdiscussed in this forum. :wall:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:54 am 
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Exactly that, the PS3, thoeretically should be more powerful than the 360, but since it is new technology, like all new technology have higher chances of instability and problems than technology that has already been proven to work over several years. The anology with the porsche and the ferrari doesnt fit because both use proven technology. Intead: would you rather fly is a prototype passenger airline that flies at mach5 in suborbit or would you rather fly in a regular airline where it is safe?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:50 pm 
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Evil_Muska don’t get pissed off… It just that I got something cool to show and this is the perfect thread to post what I found…

The Customer is God

By: Eric Peterson


As the old Japanese saying goes, “The customer is God.” It's a cornerstone of the ideology that enabled Japanese manufacturers to excel in everything from automobiles to personal electronics.

So when did Sony decide they were so big that they could decide what the customer wanted?

Sony, the same company that found such success with the Walkman in the 1980s by taking an accepted format introduced by someone else (Philips) and making it ubiquitous and stylish today finds themselves trailing behind Apple as a result of their Network Walkman clinging to both proprietary music formats and proprietary software until October of 2004.

While Sony MP3 players now accept standard digital music formats, and they are trying to compete with Apple, it was only after years of trying to force a proprietary format on consumers for their own benefit. This is but one example of Sony finding themselves in a tough situation after forcing unwanted constraints on the consumer.

There may be no better example of Sony's willingness to put their own interests ahead of the consumer than the Sony root kit fiasco that occurred in November of last year.

In 2000, Sony Pictures Entertainment US senior VP Steve Heckler stated that Sony would “aggressively pursue” strategies to control their intellectual property, declaring that Sony would not allow piracy to cause them to lose “revenue stream[s], no matter what...Sony is going to take aggressive steps to stop this. We will develop technology that transcends the individual user.”

And they did.

In October of 2005, a root kit was discovered on Sony music CDs by Mark Russinovich. The root kit installed itself on any computer the disk was installed in, without the permission or knowledge of the computer user. The root kit was intended to protect Sony's music by only allowing the customer to listen to Sony's music on a PC with a proprietary player and only allowing three copies of a song to be made. Not only was the root kit impossible for the average user to detect, let alone uninstall, but in November it would come to light that the root kit opened several undetectable security holes in the user's system, drained system resources, and also sent user data, such as when a specific CD is played on each PC, to Sony servers.

Within weeks of it's discovery, it was estimated that millions of consumer PCs were infected, and lawsuits began. Sony released an “uninstall tool” which did not actually uninstall the root kit, and Thomas Hesse, President of Sony BMG's global digital business division, publicly stated, "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?" By the end of November, Sony released another uninstall tool that actually removed the root kit, major anti-virus companies, such as Symantec, added the root kit to the list of files their anti-virus software protected against, Wired magazine published an article titled “Boycott Sony”, and class action suits were filed in several states again Sony.

While the +50 CD titles with root kit software included were recalled, and a proper uninstaller was eventually released, it is the lack of respect for the consumer, their privacy, and acting in their best interest that is most startling.

In recent years, Sony seems to have shown more interest in developing and securing format adoption for the sake of royalties than selling high quality products to customers. BetaMax, MiniDisc, MemoryStick, MemoryStick Duo, Micro MV, UMD, Blu-Ray, Atrac and BBeB are just some of the formats Sony has championed.

Sony's interest in establishing Blu-ray as a successful format is not be evident anywhere as much as Sony's upcoming PlayStation 3. After over a decade of dominance in home video game systems, Sony has put that profitability at risk by incorporating a Blu-ray as standard in the PlayStation 3. Not only are Blu-ray drives and disks substantially more expensive than DVD, but the data transfer rate of current Blu-Ray disk drives is below that of current DVD drives. The Blu-ray components have also contributed to postponing the launch of the PlayStation 3 from spring of 2006 to November, and cutting the number of launch units to 480,000; less than one third of what was offered by Microsoft for the Xbox 360. While this makes Blu-ray a questionable addition to a gaming console, Kazuo Hirai, the president of Sony Computer Entertainment America has publicly said, “[The PlayStation 3] has gaming at its core, but it's not a gaming device. It's an entertainment device.”


Microsoft's Xbox 360, the PlayStation 3's main competition, is being sold for $299 and $399 for a basic and deluxe model, and Microsoft continues to take a loss on each unit sold due to production costs. While Sony is also expected to take a loss on each new console they sell, their basic and deluxe models will cost $499 and $599 when released this November. A comparably powered gaming machine, the Xbox 360 is $200 less, primarily due to the exclusion of a next generation video disk format. Within days of the PlayStation 3's release, optional HD-DVD drives will go on sale for the Xbox 360 for $200, allowing Xbox 360 owners the flexibility of having the equivalent functionality of a PlayStation 3's high definition movie playback at a total price equal to the PlayStation 3. Whether Sony's large initial price tag and absence of choice for the consumer will impact the demand for the PlayStation 3 remains to be seen.

The inclusion of Blu-ray in the PlayStation 3 has also been a motivator in recent legal action by Sony. Lik-Sang, a popular video game retailer that specializes in exporting to customers overseas, has recently announced they will permanently close due to multiple Sony lawsuits. The lawsuits were filed in multiple European countries in which Japanese or American versions of Sony video game systems had been sold.

A Sony spokesperson went on record saying that, “ultimately, we're trying to protect consumers from being sold hardware that does not conform to strict EU or UK consumer safety standards,” and the lack of European certification for Japanese and American Sony gaming hardware was a key factor that enabled Sony to receive a satisfactory ruling from the London High Court. However, it is very unlikely that safety would have anything to do with Sony's motivation, as the Sony products being sold used the same hardware design as their European counterparts, and came with Sony power adapters that are suitable for European power standards. One clear motivator that was explicitly named by Sony was Blu-ray, and the Sony spokesperson elaborated; “[The American and Japanese PlayStation 3] will not play European Blu-Ray movies or DVDs.”

Like current DVD movies, Blu-ray uses region coding to limit consumers' choices and enable movie studios to better control video releases and pricing. Conversely, HD-DVD is region free, and any HD-DVD, commercial or otherwise, can be played in any HD-DVD player.

Those gamers who are willing to undertake the expense and trouble of importing gaming hardware such as the PlayStation 3 are usually among the most passionate gaming enthusiasts, and are willing to forgo the Blu-ray player functionality in order to get their hands on the latest gaming products. Such gamers have traditionally been able to order from resellers like Lik-Sang as legal “parallel trade” activity, which increases the choice for consumers while also preventing prices from being artificially high in any given market. Lik-Sang and other stories have been in the video game importing business for more than a decade.

However, Sony goal of putting a Blu-ray player of the correct region in every PlayStation 3 owner's home is so single minded that Sony has ordered all of their resellers not to sell PlayStation hardware outside of their specific territory.

In order to shut down Lik-Sang, Sony took advantage of the fact that only Sony's European products have specifically passed European safety standards, and were able to launch simultaneous lawsuits in multiple European countries as a result. Pascal Clarysse, Marketing Manager of Lik-Sang, responded to Sony's lawsuit by saying, “Launching separate court actions with separate claims and different judges is completely unnecessary, except for the fact that it helps reaching one single target: outspend Lik-Sang to death.”

While Sony's region coding is beneficial for Sony Pictures, and Sony's desire to put a Blu-ray player in as many homes as possible is understandable, this lawsuit does not seem like the actions of a company that is in touch with it's customers. The gamers that import are usually very fanatical, and are very likely to be the early adopters and vocal proponents of new technologies. Likewise, Lik-Sang probably generated a lot of revenue for Sony by stocking and selling their products over the last decade. Alienating their customer base while putting a long time reseller out of business seems to be a case of Sony biting the hand that feeds them.

Sony's marketing hyperbole and quality control issues with recent products (most notably the thin PS2 and laptop batteries) may cause them bad press, and division infighting and over reliance on Sony's proprietary formats have been named is weaknesses. However, an issue that Sony has not spoken about, and does not seem to by trying to rectify is their lack of respect for the customer.

Sony is a once great company that still occasionally puts out some great products. However, to get back to their roots, they may want to focus on the mindset that originally made them great. They may want to ponder the Japanese proverb; “The customer is god.”

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:09 pm 
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Both Sony and Microsoft are leaking into parts of industry they should probably not be in. Microsoft is better of sticking with software while Sony is better of to stick with entertainment devices and leave game development to the specilized companies like Nintendo. Today it isnt about the customer no matter what country you are from its all about the money and tearing down your opponents and leveling them to the ground. The cell processor is really new and like all new hardware should be tested out more thoroughly than just test it twice and sell it by the millions. The general idea with using the cell processor at it's infancy is to just simply BEAT and KICK the ass of the 360, that is it. They arent trying to make gaming better for the customers it is all simply to make the 360 look small. This is competition, and winning the competition means more money - the same goes for all hardware and software companies - Intel vs AMD, nVidia vs. ATi, EA vs. Vivendi. Why do you think each year, they always try to humiliate their oppenents with better products that seem to have been released in rush and contain hundreds of bugs - it is always just to make money.

If you look at it now, cell processors arent the way for consoles yet. Perhaps in the next 5 years once the technology is proven to work as well as it is theorized with absolutely no problems, then it is okay to sell it with a $700 console.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:25 am 
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that's a neat essay, thanks for posting it.

it does raise some questions about the quality of sony's products. IMO, they're just trying to beat a dead horse, they've been ousted as the greatest in at least a few fields, and want to go back to the top, simply by treating the customer badly (read: making the customer their bitch)

the region limits are what are REALLY pissing me off. they'll more than likely use a few hundred customers becuase they tend to buy products in europe, and/or are planning to move to/out of an area.

also, AFAIK, blu-ray players lack the ability to play DVDs and CDs, thus giving the 360 another advantage: being able to play multiple forms of media. think about it, $599 for a console, or $399 for a console/dvd/cd player.

and, TBH, a lot of people would flock just for the multiple capabilities. I know at least 3 people who have not bought DVD players for thier homes, because it was CHEAPER to buy an xbox(360) than to just get the DVD player. and when it comes to blu-ray vs. DVD, the main thing is production costs. the blu-ray costs more to make, in both recordable and pre-recorded versions [source:wikipedia] and the higher cost was what brought down the beta tapes in the VHS/beta battle. *edit* hey, guess what, sony made the betamax, hmmm... read more here

and when it comes to Nintendo, IMO, they're out of the question for hardcore gamers. Nintendo has decided to retreat from the battle for heavy gamers, and become better for introductory gamers, and to it's old fans (with the downloadable Nintendo games planned for the wii, and ports for the DS)

my final verdict:

360 is a better value for it's multitasking capabilities, and ability to soon be compatible with HD-DVDs.

the PS3 is a good console, but there's too much hype, and sony doesn't have a good reputation with customers.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:10 am 
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They should develop DVDs that can be rewritten and erased over and over again. DVDs today even the rewritable ones only mean that you can burn again but not get the spce back, once you use the space on the disk it is permanent. A truely rewritable disk is better than an overly large disk which obvoiusly nothing to date even uses that much.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:03 pm 
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-Aequitas- wrote:
Evil_Muska don’t get pissed off… It just that I got something cool to show and this is the perfect thread to post what I found…


No, I'm not pissed off.... but I am a bit irritated at your choice of text color.... It makes my eyes hurt (expecially when I scroll)! :x
I'm mostly sick of all the fanboyism and people saying that "Sony gives them orgasms" (I seriously don't want to hear this).
If it had been 1 or 2 other threads that were about the PS3 that weren't fraught with flames and were civilized, I'd be fine.

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