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 Post subject: Coroner's COD 4 Mod
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:05 am 
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If this ever becomes a reality it probably warrants it's own sub-forum; but I cross-posted this here as this is the newest mod sub-forum (to make sure Coroner and Fans would see it), in response to his blog post:

Coroner wrote:
Was working a bit on Cod4, finishing the primary weapon selection:

*6 classes per team with unique primary weapons (team dependent)
MP5/MiniUzi (Weapon Mod perk: Silencer)
KRISS Vector/AkS74U (Weapon Mod perk: Red dot)
M4 Commando/FAMAS F1 (Weapon Mod perk: Holo sight/Red dot)
6.8SPC Rifle/AK-47 (Weapon Mod perk: 4x ACOG)
M1014/SPAS-12 (Weapon Mod perk: Saboted slugs)
M21/L96 (Weapon Mod perk: Long range hollow point rounds)

Are there ppl up for closed alpha play testing? I guess there is a lot to tweak, so serious feedback would be required. It would also be decided whether this heads back in direction of early TC 045, which probably fits Cod4 movement mechanic quite well (still Q3).

I'd be interested in CB testing; however considering the current fragmentation of the TC audience, time zone differences etc. I think something more like an 'open alpha' with suggested and encouraged play times so we'd have enough Fans up and playing might be more practical. What do you Fellers say? What does the Coroner say?

:?:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:25 pm 
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Groove Six Studios
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I have two considerations with an open alpha:

1) The use of COD:MW2 and COD:BO weapons. Though there are other public mods with these.
2) In this early alpha stage, the mod is obviously still close to Cod (sounds, ui, maps etc). This might just scare many (if there are many left) off.

Otherwise I would enjoy open alpha.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:32 pm 
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coroner wrote:
I have two considerations with an open alpha:

1) The use of COD:MW2 and COD:BO weapons. Though there are other public mods with these.

I don't see how this is a concern; as you point out these are in other mods (in fact they've even been ported and re-purposed on other Developer/Publisher games/engines), even the Infinity Ward MW2 and BW model work is itself derivative and not completely original... My feeling is this is moot and trivial; and should there be any reaction from Activision it can be dealt with them...

Considering: the fallout btween Activision/Infinity Ward, the size of the audience a TC:MW4 mod is likely to attract, that TC doesn't compete with the audience that likes vanilla MW, and that TC has always been a huge inspiration for the MW franchise; it would be shocking if there was anything but a positive reaction, if there's any reaction at all from Activision as they're probably more worried about you suing them...

coroner wrote:
2) In this early alpha stage, the mod is obviously still close to Cod (sounds, ui, maps etc). This might just scare many (if there are many left) off.

Otherwise I would enjoy open alpha.

It might not be what some are looking for, but many of us that bought the MW games were increasingly disappointed with growing emphasis on the Arcade/Arena/Casino features of the franchise; i.e. weapons and money as prizes for killing, magic 'perks', air-strikes, and the claustrophobic density of players on small maps that gives the vanilla game about as much tactical depth as a hand grenade in a phone booth.

So, I feature there may be an small audience of MW Fans and Level Designers that own MW4 that were looking for something more along the lines of what True Combat games offered. It's likely initial play-share even if a TC mod were announced on Blues News will be quite small, but if original level designs can be created for the mod TC maps are ported -- pick-up could be substantial...

:)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:14 pm 
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I agree with Hoak about the open alpha. Past closed alphas have been unsuccessful in TCE due to time differences (among other aspects). It's usually a bunch of eager people wanting to try it out and then "testing" the game for a few minutes until they realize alpha testing isn't very fun with a few people playing :)

Also, I believe if we pooled the TCE audience for a closed alpha, many people would "share" it with their friends - thus making it a public alpha after all. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:20 am 
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Groove Six Studios
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Ok, then we make it open.
I am currently polishing and fixing some minor issues in the menu to avoid confusions in a public alpha.

I am also not sure about gametypes and maps. At the moment all COD4 gametypes and maps are playable.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:38 am 
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It might be fun/beneficial to play northport during the alpha test for comparison , considering it has already been ported to cod4.... :idea:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:01 pm 
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I didn't know Northport was ported. Is it any good?
Just looked at some screenies, I think the lighting looks dull and it would need much more details ... is the author still around?

I am currently thinking whether the alpha should have all maps and gametypes available or whether it would be better to restrict to TDM/Bodycount and SD/Demolition and to select some stock or custom maps that fit TC best.

Opinions?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:46 pm 
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I regarded the port well done ... I thought there were some proportionality issues on sheds of the map, but overall it's good. I also think the game modes should be restricted to BC and Demolition (and few maps) in this first set of testing, this would facilitate the search for bugs. However, I see no problems in opening the other modes for a new set of future tests.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:48 pm 
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I think it would be best to go with a TC map that is widely used for competitions still today. Since northport is already there it would be best for the tce community to test it there to keep the same tce feeling. Also to possibly involve the COD4 community in on it, I suggest you involve one of their competition maps. Biggest ones we use to scrim on were Strike or Crash. Also please involve both gametypes SD and TDM to ensure bc players who enjoy bc more than obj enjoy their time, and vise versa with the objective people. Could potentially give more feedback since both gametypes are played with different styles.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:42 pm 
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I believe someone also ported the close combat lite map, Mr.G, perhaps.

As far as the gamemodes go, OBJ and BC sound good for starters, so the initial test version isn't cluttered up with all sorts of features.

As soon as alpha is released, I'm ready to start working on porting TC:E map(s). Any requests? I'm thinking railhouse or snow but would like to expand them a little maybe or add a few more passageways to relieve the current chokepoints.

Also, I'll create a texture pack from the textures I have and start with creating some generic models which can be reused on other maps. Hopefully model skinning is supported.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:12 pm 
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coroner wrote:
I am currently thinking whether the alpha should have all maps and gametypes available or whether it would be better to restrict to TDM/Bodycount and SD/Demolition and to select some stock or custom maps that fit TC best.

Opinions?


I think it would be beneficial to leave all game types available; this might help with Player pick-up in getting MW Fans to try TC. A larger game surface is sound practice for testing in general; as you never know what Gamers will discover when beating your game/mod to death 24/7 -- and the more means offered for exploration and for limitations to raise their head the easier it is better understand what is found appealing, what works and what doesn't...

Edit: IIRC, a lot of Q3:TC Fans have been pining for CTF, and leaving in COD4 CTF might offer them the 'Welcome Mat' they've felt was taken away. I personally would love to see the return of the original Q3:TC colored rifles as capture object; as well as some of the original Q3:TC Maps as both offered a more subtle twist on what is a rather generic, but popular game mode...

:)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Gamemodes:

CTF, well, a must have for the mod, initially I wanted to postpone it because stock Cod4 has no CTF implemented. Now, I've decided that it should be there from the very start and ported 75% (edit: 100%, done) from openwarfare already. So the mod will ship with Bodycount, Demolition, CTF. I think opening all Cod4 gametypes will not help in focusing on further development.

Game mechanics, movement:

I think the mod will be somewhere between Q3:TC045 and early TCE. This is exactly how Cod4 feels with the changes done by now. And this is also where Cod4 itself got many motivations from. Also, maps will be most likely off scale again, like in Cod4, Q3:TC and early TCE.

Maps and Assets:

For the initial release I would prefer a limited set of original or custom Cod4 maps that fit the style. I am not sure about mp_northport. While it brings back some TCE feeling, visuals are not on par with other Cod4 maps and I don't think we gain much in specifically attracting ex TCE players. The future of the mod depends on original map and artwork that will be created and on audience that can be attracted from all sources.
Damiens idea to create a tex and model set is great and I would love to see the 10 most important TCE map props ported along with a base texture set. Regarding map ports, snow or railhouse are for sure good candidates. I wouldn't aim at 1:1 ports, however. They should be updated graphically like, e.g., dust in CS:GO, and they their choke point design has to be removed, like in Cod4 and returning to the feeling of old Q3:TC maps, or CQB sample (in bigger).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:42 pm 
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After having a little play around with cod in radiant I must admit that i think that going over to cod is an excellent idea! . I had a look at mp_northport as well and it seems there is a good bit of scale difference between the two although i was not expecting it to be the same i did not think it was going to be that different. I have always been more of a battlefield fan than Cod but you can count me in to help with anything i can! I was going to offer to track down the author of mp_northport but i see little point as it will more than likely be re-ported and modified at a better standard by someone from the TC dev community. concerning maps to use during the alpha test i'd like to see one of the backlot maps on the list.

Below two screenies of mp_northport showing its scale issue. (graphics settings on lowest)

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:51 pm 
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Before any mapping gets started the playerscale and desired texture quality should be discussed. It would be very frustrating to create and texture a large portion of the map only to discover that you need to recreate or retexture it.

Also, we should discuss the GFX standard we're going for. Meaning, the desired resolution of the textures and the general model, texture, audio and map design quality.


My take on it would be 1024x1024 textures as a default value with normal and specular maps when they make sense, map and model quality that can be compared with the latter CoD games.

I'd like to see a realistic player scale like CQB was going for.


BTW, even with the scale issues and not being touched up, that northport looks amazing.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:07 pm 
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Probably the first and last time I see in my lifetime Coroner being so active on the forums. I like the way this is going. However there are things that concern me...

Player popularity
TC oldies are most likely not going to play this. CQB was a flop on such a regard, there were enough people that disliked CQB. People that liked CQB might like this new mod for CoD 4. However, the amount of people that know about TC is very small compared to the masses of people that know about CoD (And YouTube comments approve of it). The first thing that a player thinks is more like "TC coppied CoD and now it's on CoD? Dafuq?" rather than "TC on Quake 3 was great, I have to try this thing!".

Gameplay... players... other nonesense including "That thing!"
Okay, let's say the Call of Duty guy ignores everything and cuts it right to the thing. He checks the features that this mod I presume has/will have. Realistic? Well, he might just play Hardcore mode! Competitive? Oh look, somebody already made a mod with competitive gameplay in mind - Promod! At this moment he probably has pressed the back button or closed the internet browser entirely. Where is that... Thing... You know... The thing... It's that thing that is like in every other game or mod, but... It just works! Doesn't make alot 'o sense, go figure, but as far as I am aware, your mod doesn't really have any... That thing. CQB had quite alot of "thing" in it, maybe it's just the overall feel - the cool scope, the freelook, your legs, the death animation, half-regenerating health. Either way, think of that thing, seriously, I think you are a talented developer, Coroner, you have made cool stuff, and I like it and believe (or I'm too naive to think of TC dying).


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