Feedback and Suggestions for 0.22/0.222
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Author:  Kil [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Feedback and Suggestions for 0.22/0.222

This is a rather big post and I've thrown in a bunch of suggestions based on the feedback so I figured I wouldn't chuck it in the Bug/Feedback thread.

First off, FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC work Coroner, I'm very surprised at how great this alpha is.
The enhancements to weapon behaviour is truly astonishing, not many games actually get such a realistic feel with the gun swaying, it isn't just the gun glued to the screen and the screen is the one doing the swaying, but the slight rotations on the gun itself, good stuff.
This PPMs system is great, it's nice to see momentum actually means something in a game. The implementation of magnifying scopes/sights is another plus, fits in very nice with the enhanced weapon behaviour.
Also, thank you so much for replacing with the hip carry with an unaimed shouldered carry, it is now possible to hit someone 2 metres away from you without having to have your gun glued to your face. This was one of the most annoying things with TC:E for me.

Freelook. This is a very nice feature, but it isn't that practical to use. The only situation I found myself using it is to have my gun pointing at a door way or a gap, while I freelook over to the side to keep watch over my flank while I can still see the door way in the corner of my screen, basically just to increase my FOV, not to glance over at something like it should be used for, and that's all.
It isn't fast and efficient enough to use it quickly and properly but I don't see a way where it could be made easier to use with the mouse and keyboard setup, going to need some additional sensors rigged up :P
But as for minor improvements to its current state; when you release the free look button, you turn back rather slowly. The speed would be okay if you're just chill and looking around but it is very likely you'll be in a risky situation that'll require you to get your A into G, you'd move your head back to your sights faster.

Regenerating health. I'm kind of thinking both ways. At first before I had played a fair bit I was against it straight away. It's just really out of place to have a game that is mainly aimed at realism, then to just jump to the complete opposite side of the spectrum for a few aspects and I was thinking about the single-life short-timed objective mode, which regenerating health isn't very appropriate. But after playing the game, the regenerating health actually works well with the current BC gameplay in the alpha, with an enemy potentially around every corner non-stop, the regening health is kind of needed because it keeps you in the action more and you don't have to run out and try pick up dropped painkillers.
So with a future objective mode, I'm still siding with not having the regenerating health but for BC... I can go either way with it really, though having recharging health in one game mode then not in another might be too strange of a feature to have changing.
So.. Compromise time. Rather than having the 100% regenerating health, it could use the sector type (used in MoH Airborne I think it was), where your health is split into sections and you can only regenerate up to the max of the current section your in (think of it like checkpoints, but backwards). So if you get taken down to yellow health you could regen up to white (full), orange regens up to yellow, red regens up to orange. The different areas of your body could be independent, so red chest and yellow legs goes to orange chest and white legs, but have it effect speed, so it takes twice as long for the regeneration to complete (two body parts, half speed regen). This could open up a use for that Painkiller perk again, where it could boost you up an extra section.
Yeah this system leans more towards no regen vs. full regen, but really, this isn't Halo where you need to fight 300 guys all by yourself (plus it's the year 2500 or whatever where recharging shields would be likely), you are one guy on a team of other guys who are fighting an even team of equals, being able to live forever isn't required like it is in a one guy vs the world game.

Bloody screen,
TC:E was fine with indicating you getting hit, I guess wanting to have a visual cue that lasts longer to go along with the regenerating health is fine (heartbeat that is already in covers audio, that's good) but having a glass pane in front of your face with blood splattered over it is a bit off. It was probably one of the easier options to implement since it's just a fading texture overlay but something more believable and less irritating would be a nice minor thing to have, like some sort of blur effects around the edges to simulate slight loss of peripheral vision temporarily and if you really have to, maybe the red flash could hold longer and maybe just at the sides.. Sorry I'm just really anti how painfully silly the MW2 blood splatter is, refer to link above again ;)

Perks. The way it has been setup at the moment is pretty good, rather than doing the bullshit type crap from Modern Warfare, they've been kept rather realistic and not too drastic. It has come through more as a slots/weight type system which is cool.
Though I'm not really a fan of things that change physical things (ie Steady Aim) and especially things that enable/disable assumed movement abilities (ie Freeclimb), rather than having one of those categories, I'd much, much rather see it replaced by a second nade slot.
A new layout for the loadout designed for the addition of these extras and the slots system would certainly be something good to add to make it clearer and faster to use.

Adjustment type things;

MP5/40 > UMP45. Just like TC:E, I find (and pretty much everyone else) that the MP5 is far more effective than the UMP. I have never actually noticed if the .45 even does more damage compared to the .40 or not but it certainly adds a lot of recoil, on top of the lower rate of fire of the UMP. I'd suggest that the recoil be toned down some (feels more like an assault rifle at the moment) and maybe the ROF could also be beefed up from 600 (assuming the real ROF is used in-game) to 650rpm (that of a UMP chambered in .40SW and 9mm) to help it out a bit.

The M110 and M76 fitted with iron sights basically become semi-auto battle rifles, and the 10 round magazine they are loaded with becomes really restrictive and requires LOTS of reloading and almost required Extra Ammo (assuming you're good enough to live through a few firefights). The low mag capacity fits their sniping roll but not their battle rifle roll, which would really want a 20 round mag, 15 minimum. Could either just boost the magazine capacity for the rifles (it's more of an issue for the battle rifle than it is for the sniper rifle) or since they essentially become two different types of weapon, maybe it'd just be better to have them as two different weapons, so have the sniper and then have a different pair of weapons with 20-round magazines to be semi-auto battle rifles. (1.5x or 2x ACOG on the semi-auto 20-round rifle would be ace also).
Oh and speaking about snipers, a map that has some distance and space that will allow the 4x scope to be useful would be cool to have soon, so the weapon can actually see some use.

Is there any reason the machine pistol primaries still have one less clip then other primaries? With their high ROF, they run out of ammo faster already plus they do the least damage per bullet, so leaving them with one less clip seems weird since if anything, it'd be the one to have an extra clip.

Another thing that I'd like to see is the weapon itself (not just the additional sights) count towards slots, so that someone with an SMG would have say, one extra perk slot than someone with an assault rifle. This would fit in well, it would be analogous to the TC:E system of Recon, Assault and Snipers having their different preset nade packages, with the recon having the most and the sniper having the least.

Anyway, even with the things I personally don't like, namely the MW/overly-arcadey inspired features, the game is still absolutely AMAZING, and I cannot wait for Objective mode and more maps. Good work, keep it up!

Author:  coroner [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:29 am ]
Post subject: 

Thanks very much for this very constructive post. I don't have the time to comment on it now, but I can tell that I will pickup many of the suggestions which are in good agreement with some of my plans anyhow, e.g.,

*Partial health recovery which is suited for and consistent in respawn/1-life gametypes

As a sidenote, the strengh of the .45 round is that it keeps range and power even if silenced. I also considered the UMP40 with higher rpm in earlier inhouse versions but never came to a good conclusion. On solution could be to reduce the power of the MP5/40 by making it a 9mm MP5 (with higher range and less spread compared to the Miniuzi and MP9) and to slightly increase the power of the .45 round.

Author:  sxy [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:56 pm ]
Post subject: 

It is interesting that clinically there is no significant difference in lethality of long 9mm and 0.45acp. There also is no significant difference in mortality between victims shot with hollow point and FMJ handgun bullets. At least this is what forensic pathologists say..

Author:  gonzo|Uncle Bionic [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:19 pm ]
Post subject: 

sxy wrote:
It is interesting that clinically there is no significant difference in lethality of long 9mm and 0.45acp. There also is no significant difference in mortality between victims shot with hollow point and FMJ handgun bullets. At least this is what forensic pathologists say..

I assume that terrorists and spec-ops in this game are pretty heavily armored, at that point it makes difference.

Author:  Damien [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback and Suggestions for 0.22/0.222

Kil wrote:
Freelook. This is a very nice feature, but it isn't that practical to use.
I've found it useful for checking my flanks quickly when sprinting across an open area.

I'd like to see it limited by the stance. Meaning, you can only turn your head as far as the current body position allows you to prevent from looking in a different location once you stopped using it.

Author:  sxy [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

Well.. decent soft ballistic vests can stop almost any handgun cartridge. They can even stop rifle bullets if used with a breast plate.

Author:  Gaspashov [ Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feedback and Suggestions for 0.22/0.222

Damien wrote:
Kil wrote:
I'd like to see it limited by the stance. Meaning, you can only turn your head as far as the current body position allows you to prevent from looking in a different location once you stopped using it.

I second that, and maybe reduce the timing when switching back to "fire mode".

Btw of pistols & ammos in OP, it would be nice if the pistols clips get increased like primaries when choosing Extra Ammo.

Author:  Harbeck [ Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:11 am ]
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the gif that explains it is nice you aim at a corner then use freelook to view some other door while still aiming at conrer, its nice and usefull, but in reality if you turn your head more the aim also moves and you arent checking the corner anymore, i would be great variable like headlock, when checked in view menu you cant freelok more than a limit

Author:  cbdaqb [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:39 pm ]
Post subject: 

#1 thing i want to see is a new hand model, biggest gripe from TCE lol THOSE THUMBS

Author:  Damien [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:43 pm ]
Post subject: 

Who knows...

Author:  Alpha Red [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 

If he would let people to actually create content for the game then I'm sure one could switch up the hands. :wink:

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