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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:02 pm 
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hoak wrote:
Apparently some here have a very limited idea of the variety of what cell shaded art can look like, it doesn't have to be 2d, 5 color, Simpsons art... And 'Toon' doesn't have to mean funny or lacking in serious aesthetic.

Regardless, you get whatever Coroner does for FREE, you pay absolutly NOTHING for it, and too many here are worse then ungreatful; especially so when presenting the attitude that Coroner somehow 'owes' anyone anything...

Whatever motivates Coroner, keeps him enthusiastic, moving forward, and sharing his progress regarding whatever creative game design and development endeavor he's spending his spare time on, should be encouraged at every level -- not discouraged...

Image

Just to be clear, its Cel Shading (one L damnit).

No one here is ungrateful, I don't get where you are pulling that one out. Everyone is just voicing their opinions. If they don't like Cel shading, they are allowed to say so. They aren't forced to only agree with and kiss the feet of Coroner for everything he does. Not too long ago you were harking on Coroner for not including "realism blah blah blah" in TC:E so that you could play it with your bros. And now you call out everyone for disliking a little feature (if we can call it that)? Where is the line drawn, is it somehow invisible for you yet everyone has to stay inside the box?

If people disliking his cel shading idea is gonna discourage him, then I dunno how he's made it this far with anything. No one is dictating what he should do with his time, people are just offering up opinions. If he didn't care what other people thought, he wouldn't post anything and he wouldn't release any of his work. But since this is not the case, you have no right to call out people and tell them that they shouldn't say anything, because frankly, you have done the exact same thing.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Yeah, I didn't see the controversy either.

In case someone wonders how I did it, add cel to your shaderlist.txt, create a cel.shader and paste this into it:
Code:
textures/cel/ink
{
    qer_editorimage textures/q3tc/black.jpg

    q3map_notjunc
    q3map_nonplanar
    q3map_bounce 0.0
    q3map_shadeangle 120
    q3map_texturesize 1 1
    q3map_invert           //inverts drawing surface for backfacing hull
    q3map_offset -2.0    //offsets surface by the specified distance

    surfaceparm nolightmap
    surfaceparm trans
    surfaceparm nonsolid
    surfaceparm nomarks

    sort 16

    {
        map textures/q3tc/black.jpg
        rgbGen identity
    }
}

Then, open your map and add the _celshader string with a cel/ink key. Then just recompile the map with -meta in the bsp phase (you probably do already).

This is a gimmick though. It takes a plane (a brush face), duplicates it, offsets it, adds a black texture facing away from the player and makes the engine draw it behind (more correctly, after) the initial brush face. That way you only see the black edges which makes it look like the borders around the brush faces are drawn.

Unfortunately, this means adding more tris to the map during compile time, especially if you convert your static models to brushes too.

I don't know how you would do the same with the player models. That's why I'm not sure if coroner's toon shader has outlines on the models or if it's a color correction for the textures like with the dynamic eye and HDR he coded. I too would like to see some official screenshots.


As for Borderlands, I don't really dig it's post processing. It's still a game with regular next-gen graphics except some black edges were added. Also, lots of bloom which seems to work against what they seemed to be going for. I like the first person arms and weapons though.

XIII's crisp cel shading works better for me, even though it's visuals are fairly simple and the gameplay is lousy.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:49 am 
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Alpha Red wrote:
Just to be clear, its Cel Shading (one L damnit).

No one here is ungrateful, I don't get where you are pulling that one out. Everyone is just voicing their opinions. If they don't like Cel shading, they are allowed to say so. They aren't forced to only agree with and kiss the feet of Coroner for everything he does. Not too long ago you were harking on Coroner for not including "realism blah blah blah" in TC:E so that you could play it with your bros. And now you call out everyone for disliking a little feature (if we can call it that)? Where is the line drawn, is it somehow invisible for you yet everyone has to stay inside the box?

If people disliking his cel shading idea is gonna discourage him, then I dunno how he's made it this far with anything. No one is dictating what he should do with his time, people are just offering up opinions. If he didn't care what other people thought, he wouldn't post anything and he wouldn't release any of his work. But since this is not the case, you have no right to call out people and tell them that they shouldn't say anything, because frankly, you have done the exact same thing.

Spelling lessons from someone with grammar, spelling and punctuation that wouldn't make it past the fourth grade in some ghetto dump elementry school; really?

You with your sophmoric screaming meltdowns, petty insults, and tantrums posts have to be the capital poster child for discouraging 'Fan'...

The point isn't what you or anyone likes or dislikes; it's what Coroner likes that keeps him going, and the way it's discussed; something that obviously escapes you...

:roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:32 pm 
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hoak wrote:
Alpha Red wrote:
Just to be clear, its Cel Shading (one L damnit).

No one here is ungrateful, I don't get where you are pulling that one out. Everyone is just voicing their opinions. If they don't like Cel shading, they are allowed to say so. They aren't forced to only agree with and kiss the feet of Coroner for everything he does. Not too long ago you were harking on Coroner for not including "realism blah blah blah" in TC:E so that you could play it with your bros. And now you call out everyone for disliking a little feature (if we can call it that)? Where is the line drawn, is it somehow invisible for you yet everyone has to stay inside the box?

If people disliking his cel shading idea is gonna discourage him, then I dunno how he's made it this far with anything. No one is dictating what he should do with his time, people are just offering up opinions. If he didn't care what other people thought, he wouldn't post anything and he wouldn't release any of his work. But since this is not the case, you have no right to call out people and tell them that they shouldn't say anything, because frankly, you have done the exact same thing.

Spelling lessons from someone with grammar, spelling and punctuation that wouldn't make it past the fourth grade in some ghetto dump elementry school; really?

You with your sophmoric screaming meltdowns, petty insults, and tantrums posts have to be the capital poster child for discouraging 'Fan'...

The point isn't what you or anyone likes or dislikes; it's what Coroner likes that keeps him going, and the way it's discussed; something that obviously escapes you...

:roll:

Dude, do you seriously have to do this?

Supposedly I'm the one with "petty insults" yet you just insulted my educational background (from which you lack any knowledge of). And just to make it clear, I wasn't trying to be insulting with the spelling correction, I was just stating a fact and not trying to put anyone down for it. You, on the other hand, can't take it and have to make that comment. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all.

Also, maybe re-read my post. I never insulted you; I kept it quite peaceful (if I must say so myself).

If Coroner likes what he's doing, nothing we do can stop him from liking it. I wouldn't stop modeling or animating just because people don't like what I'm modeling. I model because its something I enjoy and frankly, that's all that matters to me. If Coroner enjoys coding (which I believe he does) then nothing you say, or I say or anything else other people say can change that. I feel sorry for anyone who puts other peoples' expectations of themself above their own.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:40 am 
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Alpha Red wrote:
Supposedly I'm the one with "petty insults" yet you just insulted my educational background (from which you lack any knowledge of).

No, I pointed out the inappropriateness of someone that writes and posts as you do correcting someone else's spelling... The way I said it no more 'insulting' then what you've said, just a literal comparison. I'm sadly too well aware Canada has a much better Education system then the U.S., that we're headed for the bottom of the barrel in that regard, and have made no assumptions about your education. Your choice of words, grammar, how you spell, and punctuate however...

Alpha Red wrote:
Also, maybe re-read my post. I never insulted you; I kept it quite peaceful (if I must say so myself).

You're right, and you should probably follow your own advice. I did partly mistake you for Rang3r1_v2 who too frequently writes screaming rage fit posts, often directed at Dragonathan, the most recent example in this thread. With the over-reaction to Coroner's enthusiasm for the Toon style Cel-Shader (and just about everything he's written), after he specifically wrote:

coroner wrote:
...please spare rants and raves...

...about his Toon Cel Shader art, just struck me as all so unwarranted from this audience...

Let me offer an example: if you had a sweet little old Lady that owned a Bakery near you, that gave away tons of baked goods every day, and you thought she was nice for doing it -- and suddenly she enthused about her new Cinnamon Raisin Wheat bread, and every one grumbled bitched that they liked getting free Rye Bread more, and even started fighting in her store about it; how do you supposed she'd feel about it?

It's a fact, Coroner is a little old lady that owns a Bakery Mittenwald...

:)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:14 am 
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well if it gets in,I hope coroner does some of his magic :D

But still, i understand some of this viewpoint. He came even tho we didnt even think about it and now hes making a sequel. No cost and even better than older TCs.

But. He also has a community. Maybe he should not listen us too deeply since its his vision, still there is consequense. Every developer is happy if community is happy. If he sees best way is to use cel shading and has done something he knows is happy surprise to us i recomend to keep going. Usualy toon graphics are "timeless" like black is colour of choice no mater in what time produced. But also the look might not keep amazing us after a while. For me TCE looks still good and i am impressed how much Idtech 3 still can do.

If we dont like it atleast its going to be interesting and mapping still possible without cel shading?

So lets see as the time comes. He ehtier way will be happy because of the happy community (because of the new game which possibly plays well). Graphics are not "all" we got :P

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Well there's no shortage Call Of Honor/Medal Of Duty derivative clones and mods... Granted it seems to be a game design formula that has limitless capacity for popular appeal, but, when you look at who it's appealing to...

:x

I'd vet anything Corner makes; in it's day Coroner's Terminator mod, and the original Q3 True Combat got their 'edginess' because they weren't like everything else out there.

I particularly find the idea of True Combat (anything) borrowing from games that originally borrowed from it, and made Billionaires out of a dozen or so people that capitalized on that rather disturbing...

My biggest 'pet wish' is that Coroner continues to do his thing what ever that may be, he has more ideas and talent then he obviously has time to indulge -- which is a shame, so what he has shouldn't be squandered on any sense of onus to some sort of 'Community'.

Terminator, True Combat, Elite 626, and CQB; in their day showed there can be a lot more to shooters then just shooting and Coroner is part of an increasingly small number of FOF indie Developers that are still productive. Encourage him, cherish it -- you might think I sound preachy, but you won't when he gets bored or disgrunteld and diappears...

:?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:27 pm 
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As long as will be possible to toggle any feature ... who cares.
Everybody has own style and prefer own settings.
Advantage for one is disadvantage for others.

If Coroner will keep this feature switchable then all of You will be happy because settings flexibility are most important than force for only one ultimate solution. CQB in later lifetime will show which settings will be more preferred by players, at this moment we should keep motivate TC developers to progress with positive feedback.

Everytime I come on this forum I get new inspiration for maps.
Image
Toon shade = fast food burger blow :twisted:

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