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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:32 pm 
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|2oss® wrote:
@Dragon: i dont recall anyone flaming you for the legs. The legs being shown now is a nice addition and i've always wondered why they werent there since .48.


they did flamed me on the old official forum,

|2oss® wrote:
Also referring to the new feet view, when you looked down just before you were about to jump off that roof your feet looked really really flabby. Sensitivity?


i agree it does look flabby, this should be improved imo

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:07 am 
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Dragonathan wrote:
|2oss® wrote:
@Dragon: i dont recall anyone flaming you for the legs. The legs being shown now is a nice addition and i've always wondered why they werent there since .48.


they did flamed me on the old official forum,

|2oss® wrote:
Also referring to the new feet view, when you looked down just before you were about to jump off that roof your feet looked really really flabby. Sensitivity?


i agree it does look flabby, this should be improved imo

Who did say the feets are 100% done? Maybe talk about bugs _after_ the first RELEASE. And I think Coroner already knows that the feets are flappy...

Coroner, are you trying to make a game what is realistic or fun? Regeneration, crosshair, radar, energy meter, health meter, bullet amount meter and the text showing amount of clips.. U dont have them IRL.


Last edited by jussi on Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:25 am 
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coroner wrote:
It is 180 units/s = 13 km/h, and you can use this without limitation.

I hope that's lowered for a 'g_realism 1' option -- as 13 kph distance runner speeds will draw a pretty hard line (read deal breaker) with regard to the prospect of widening your game's appeal in direction the of a wider tactical realism audience. A 9.6 kph vMax carrying the payload of weapons, magazines, body armor, munitions, clothing, and equipment portrayed in TC:E is more then pushing the limits of what both scales realistically in games, and portrays what's practical in real combat so equipped.

Additional benefits of more realistic player movemnt speed include TC:E's small and typically distorted scale BSP maps will 'feel' both more realistic and larger, and by not having to 'cork' player models through doorways and through obstacles at preposterous speeds will give your fans opportunity to appreciate the detail and craft of your maps, and allow more realistic cover scenarios to develop and play out more realistically...

:?


Last edited by hoak on Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:38 am, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:25 am 
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Opps... Double post.... :P


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:02 pm 
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I hope that we will not see a G_realism version for some time.
It will only divide the community more then it is now and everyone will loose on this
.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:45 pm 
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Eqpe wrote:
I hope that we will not see a G_realism version for some time.
It will only divide the community more then it is now and everyone will loose on this.

'g_realism' is not a "version", it's a var that Coroner has promised and not delivered on for many years. The premise that it will somehow 'divide' or in any way fragment TC:E's miniscule arcade/action community has absolutely no basis in fact, so your concerns on several levels are baseless paranoia.

There is in fact substantial evidence that a 'g_realism' var if it incorporated enough realism metrics would offer QCB a substantial new audience that has absolutely no interest in games with TC:E's arcade/fantasy metrics, and game-play -- just as the current TC:E audience has virtually no interst in AA3...

When I previously canvassed the GRN audience and and pimped TC:E there was an interested audience many times the size of the one that has ever played TC:E, that tried, and summarily dismissed TC:E (and my enthusiasm) as too arcady to take seriously or bother with.

A sad state of affairs as NYC Paramedic points out as TC:E certainly has all the resources and means to appeal to this much larger audience -- but TC:E is regarded as 'epic and pandering in it's fantasy arcadish play' in this audience's valuation.

:(


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:37 pm 
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I would not say everyone views TCE as "arcadish". There are some realism nuts that view it as that - but there are probably just as many that think it's a little too realistic compared to other FPS games. It's just a matter of personal opinion and preference, so just stating that TCE is on one end or the other really is not of significance and I don't think relevant.

But I do think the previous plan of g_realism (or hardcore now as coroner had mentioned) would be a great idea. Having more options and preferences for players to choose from is always a GOOD thing.

And about dividing the community, I don't see that a problem. Hopefully we will obtain fresh new players in our community (therefore more servers/players), and seeing how the current TCE has two major game modes (bodycount and objective) - one could have argued years ago that different game modes would have split the community and "everyone will lose on this" - but it clearly didn't have much of an impact at all because it's common to see players playing both game types (even if they have a preference for one particular game mode).

And yes, it's a var not version to clear everyone's confusion (as Hoak stated).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:34 pm 
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Well might I ask what a var is?
cause even if it's not by definition is a version, in my eyes it looks like one.
"The new audience" surely looks to have quite an amount of games to play so I wonder why they would choose QCB?

Where is this evidence I might ask? I could even use parts of your own words.
The premise that it will somehow attract an new audience or in any way attract new people has absolutely no basis in fact. Tce have had a loss of player basis for years and I don't see a way for QCB to attract that much new audience. Or do we have some kind of pondering PR machine that is soon to be released?

There were dividing between Tce .49 and .48 because of changes in the game (One of them were the lowering of speed). There will once again be dividing in the community (QCB and .49). We will after that have another "version" that will further divide the community.

Having to many options is actually a bad thing.

I'm not saying that we should hold the "G_realism" on hold forever but it should be realesed with a later version.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:03 pm 
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The big problem between 0.48 and 0.49 is that 0.49 is *a bit* too much serious.
In 0.48 you had the possibility to do global voicechats, and of course the speed wasn't the same.
About grenades too.
But the most shitty part is to have left the same fs_game name, and to have server admins to have to use the trick of use a W:ET 2.55 (buggy and full of leaks).
With a different fs_game name, people wouldn't have stopped to play 0.49 when they discovered the shit it produced in their 0.48 installadtion (and with 0.49A, sorry, but i was a bit disgusted too).
By luck, i preserved my tcetest directory and some of my friends too (on my advice ^^).
The install of the game is tricky for noObs,and when you crashed your 0.48 "Ok, i will not reinstall it anymore, especially if it is to do it again and again".

For me, we just need to have some parallel installations, all should coexist and be transparent...

Having a lot of options is NEVER a bad thing as says Diane.
Think about life and DNA, only the ones who have the most adapted "config" survive...
Offer a lot of choices and the population will develop...
Restrict and it is death after a few generations.
And even if sometimes you think it is the optimal config, some external parameters could change the needs.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:19 pm 
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Eqpe wrote:
The premise that it will somehow attract an new audience or in any way attract new people has absolutely no basis in fact. Tce have had a loss of player basis for years and I don't see a way for QCB to attract that much new audience. Or do we have some kind of pondering PR machine that is soon to be released?


Logic dictates TCE has a loss of player basis for years because of the lack of updates, current bugs, and non "noob" friendly servers.

You are assuming that only the current TCE players are aware and would like to play a new TC version. There are many players who have been following coroner since 1999 that are watching this project but do not play TCE for whatever reason it might be (as you can see from a few people who managed to get their accounts activated that post here).

One of the main reasons CQB is not just a new TCE version is because (from my understanding) so that coroner has the freedom to expand the game as he pleases - and to attract and garner a new audience... basically to start with a clean slate.

This situation mirrors the transition from Q3:TC to TCE. TC had no update or active devs for many, many years and the community basically consisted of 100 players who kept the game alive by playing and releasing 3rd party content. Enter TCE. How many old TC players are still around compared to the people who just came along after TCE? Point proven. One would assume the same will happen with CQB.

Regardless if 1 player will download CQB or 100's... the point is: this is not a TCE update. It's a separate and different mod based on TCE's code (as TCE was based on Q3:TC 0.45's code). Evolving a game entails adding new features and making the game more customizable. It's a GOOD thing, and I really think people should be offering suggestions and input instead of criticizing some proposed features before a beta is even released (so they can actually test it out themselves).

EDIT: I'm not trying to passive aggressively "flame" you, Eppe. I'm just trying to put things into perspective for you - and for everyone. A lot of people just seem uptight with their wants and needs for this new mod. It's almost like they are feeling entitled to be a creative part of the development. I think we should first see what the beta is like before we start the criticism. But for now, let's just focus on positive suggestions, etc. And if you don't agree with something written or something that might be included - stating that you personally don't agree is a lot better than making broad general statements how it won't work or how it won't be good for the community - because we aren't talking about TCE anymore. Thanks.

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Last edited by Diane on Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:35 pm 
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Maybe adding custom weather would be good ? like every another round is another weather like rain,snow and day,night and mixed them together ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:59 pm 
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Diane wrote:
Eqpe wrote:
The premise that it will somehow attract an new audience or in any way attract new people has absolutely no basis in fact. Tce have had a loss of player basis for years and I don't see a way for QCB to attract that much new audience. Or do we have some kind of pondering PR machine that is soon to be released?


Logic dictates TCE has a loss of player basis for years because of the lack of updates, current bugs, and non "noob" friendly servers.

You are assuming that only the current TCE players are aware and would like to play a new TC version. There are many players who have been following coroner since 1999 that are watching this project but do not play TCE for whatever reason it might be (as you can see from a few people who managed to get their accounts activated that post here).

One of the main reasons CQB is not just a new TCE version is because (from my understanding) so that coroner has the freedom to expand the game as he pleases - and to attract and garner a new audience... basically to start with a clean slate.

This situation mirrors the transition from Q3:TC to TCE. TC had no update or active devs for many, many years and the community basically consisted of 100 players who kept the game alive by playing and releasing 3rd party content. Enter TCE. How many old TC players are still around compared to the people who just came along after TCE? Point proven. One would assume the same will happen with CQB.

Regardless if 1 player will download CQB or 100's... the point is: this is not a TCE update. It's a separate and different mod based on TCE's code (as TCE was based on Q3:TC 0.45's code). Evolving a game entails adding new features and making the game more customizable. It's a GOOD thing, and I really think people should be offering suggestions and input instead of criticizing some proposed features before a beta is even released (so they can actually test it out themselves).


Ofcourse TCE dropped people because of the lack of updates.
We all know that but will the information about coroners return reach them? and are they of a considerable amount?

Quote:
This situation mirrors the transition from Q3:TC to TCE


Sorry but it doesn't. TCE were realesed during 2004 about one year after the realese of ET. Thus making it one of the "new" and hot mods for a flourishing ET community. QCB will be realesed on an outdated enginé. Even though it is being pushed to it's limits so it actually looks kind of nice nice.

Ideas should ofcourse be criticized just as people should offer ideas. That's called a discussion.

notice that I have not criticized the "G_reality var" but I have criticized when it should be published. All kinds of customization shouldn't maybe be offered at a first beta.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:19 pm 
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well put diane, although I don't think it will be quite as much of a split as with tc:e and tc (for anyone that cares, I'm pretty sure I'm the only tce guy who played tc, bar bicly when he is on), in that situation tce had its own separate website and forum, and was definitely thought of as "the enemy". most tc:e players are absolutely amazed that ANYTHING has happened, and after watching the two teaser videos, it doesnt seem so far away from tc:e. and with a little bit of the coroner touch it will probably be great in its own unique way, bypassing the "arcadey" or "realistic" arguments - just simply enjoyable.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:36 pm 
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Diane wrote:
I would not say everyone views TCE as "arcadish".

I certainly didn't say that, and can't find anywhere that NYC did either...

Diane wrote:
There are some realism nuts that view it as that - but there are probably just as many that think it's a little too realistic compared to other FPS games.

Categorizing an audience of 23 million as 'realism nuts' is a little derisive don't you think, just for having a preference?

Diane wrote:
It's just a matter of personal opinion and preference, so just stating that TCE is on one end or the other really is not of significance and I don't think relevant.

I agree that it's a matter of preference, but preferences are based on facts -- and this sort of discussion too often devolves into spinning a fact based discussion on audience demographics into FUD and histrionics where facts get called opinions, and fear bating like 'audience fragmentation' is presented as some sort of valid argument.

Diane wrote:
But I do think the previous plan of g_realism (or hardcore now as coroner had mentioned) would be a great idea. Having more options and preferences for players to choose from is always a GOOD thing.

Well unfortunately some don't agree with 'always a good thing' -- and to give that premise it's due; in the market of ten years ago it had did some veracity where there was a very limited venue of game alternatives; but today it's just FUD and poppycock...

Of couse whether g_realism or g_hardcore offers CQB any real value in attracting players is going to hinge heavily on what it offers, and it would be nice, Diane (please), if there was a discussion venue where that could be discussed by fans interested in the features offered. There's a long history post Acrid_ of TC Fans trolling TS Fans off the forum and even relentlessly ban baiting.

As most TR fans tend just give up and go away under these sorts of circumstances -- it might be nice to have a seperate moderated thread where we could discuss g_realism and not be relentlessly attacked and trolled... May I start a "CQB g_realism 1" thread in hopes of seperating some people from the targets of their anxiety Diane? Can we get Coroner to vet one?

Diane wrote:
And about dividing the community, I don't see that a problem. Hopefully we will obtain fresh new players in our community (therefore more servers/players), and seeing how the current TCE has two major game modes (bodycount and objective) - one could have argued years ago that different game modes would have split the community and "everyone will lose on this" - but it clearly didn't have much of an impact at all because it's common to see players playing both game types (even if they have a preference for one particular game mode).

Well said, and there are even more empirical examples of how additional features do not play in the current market, from the 'Pink Handguns Only' play modes to 'No Ironsights', and even 'No Reticule' mods and modes -- when Fans in todays market can't find a server that offers the kind of game specifics they want they either make it for themselves as a mod, or can find it elsewhere...

:?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:52 pm 
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HoboCoP wrote:
for anyone that cares, I'm pretty sure I'm the only tce guy who played tc, bar bicly when he is on),


Lol what about me :mrgreen:

I have played and still play

I think that this discusion about state of realism is very important since i dont play much Elite over true combat 1.2 because of realism. 1.2 still haves that something what makes it so great and realistic for me example cool animations when you shoot someone into chest with m3s90 you almost feel buckshots penetrating body and iron sight zoom is little smaller too which is good at tce shooting someone with m3s90 feels almost trying to pop balloon with a dart and the recoil here at true combat was much more better in this case i think

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