I believe it's a server side setting that dictates certain game parameters.



Kinda. Depending on your point of view.



Because some people discriminate between being part of a community or being a mere consumer. Thats is, the "new audience" might not realize that many of today's games actually get in the way of letting you play the game.

There's DRM; buggy releases with no timely fixes; ignoring the core communities because marketing demands appealing to the widest audience; etc., etc., etc.

They might choose CQB because The Team could offer a *free* game that is truly cross platform, runs on modest hardware, and that actually gets engaging tactical game play right. Look at my previous posts regarding such games as Red Orchestra. Also, does anyone remember an amazing free mod for Battlefield 1942 called Desert Combat?



I can't give you evidence, but I can give you some examples that are better than anecdotal. Here's a thread from the UBI Raven Shield forums that was started in May of 2006. 417 posts, with the last dated Jul 15 2010. Link: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 021644/p/1

Take some time to look at the posts. Notice the camaraderie. Notice that these people are still finding ways to connect with one another and play a game (that had no dedicated server) from 1998. Some of them are able to articulate what was so right about a game like RS/R6 in comparison to how some of the biggest productions of today fail to keep your attention for more than a few months, or generate a true community with a longstanding, loyal fan base.




TC:E was initially released to the world, in my opinion, as an arcadish FPS. Yes, changes were made in later releases. But, it's that much harder to change people's perception *after* the fact.

There was interest in TC:E after it's initial release --and I really appreciated many aspects of the games technology-- but it pales in comparison to the communities generated, and more importantly, sustained by games like R6, RS, RVS, Red Orchestra, etc.

And, again, not saying this in any disparaging way, but you don't have anything resembling a community right now. Any my humble opinion is that if CQB is perceived to be an update to TC:E (or keeps many of it's arcadish elements), in six months time you'll have the same 20 people playing on 3 out of 50 empty servers.


P.S. You want an anecdote? In the summer of 2002 my small group of TR friends (we called ourselves NYC*EMS clan) decided to host a weekend BBQ for any of the friends that we played Rogue Spear with religiously on MSN Zone; guys/gals we knew since 1998 but never met. We had 13 people show up from all different states: from a 19 year old who had to for beg permission from his parents to travel to New York City, to a 40 something year mother of 2 who was a nurse. We drank, grilled food, toured NYC, and had a blast. Total strangers stayed over at my friend's apartment. No drama or issues whatsoever.

They. Still. Talk. About. It.

No that, my friends, is community.

The we're on the same page about the vars!



Cool, I have in mind rouge spear was one of the first fps games I played beside, doom and doom 2.
I read every third page and I did find camaraderie amazing, astonishing and very admirable. I did on the other hand not see those posts where they say why they don't find todays game good.
I did in opposite notice a lot of them are or have played Cod 4 for some time.
also this

"Rogue Spear was hands down the BEST game EVER, I still play it for the fast pace,"

But thanks for the thread and those things will hopefully generate new players here, even if we don't get a G_realism var



Well the whole tce have not had that kind of meeting but clans, and "friendclans" have had those meetings in tce as well. Gonzo had the "gonzofest" where people from different counties showed up. (Finland and Germany): They also shared their pictures to us in the forum.
We In catch 22 had a meet up in the Uk featuring members from Sweden, Finland, Austria and the Uk's. Our youngest participant was 18 so we do actually have a community by your own definition. This was not that long ago.

No. For that, you have to go to to the main UBI lobby and look through some of the forums for the current games. Take a look (as I did) at the current forums like Rainbow Six Vegas.


Yes. You are correct. It's nice to mix it up on occasion. I remember doing that between RS and Desert Combat.




You know, I hope some people haven't misunderstood where I coming from with this "Tactical Realism" thing I'm so fond of. I am *not* proposing, or even interested, in a game whose overall pace is that like America's Army or Ghost Recon. Rogue Spear is a fast paced game.

It took me while to find actual videos of online Rogues Spear game play, but I found one that most resembles what I think CQB (again, all my very humble opinion) should strive for. Though, I'm not asking for a clone of RS.

(I can't seem to embed the video here; I would have liked to do that) Link: http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/ ... 008/183176

Another one on a slightly bigger map. It's 8 vs 8. Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9OI1O48 ... re=related (Note: We, and the majority of online gamers, never played with third person view or heartbeat sensors.)

I'd like to contrast that with this TC:E video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4sDThPVz7Y

Can people here seriously say that Rogue Spear is too slow? Or, that it would benefit from jumping or balancing on 2 inch wide roof ledges?

Watch both of them a few times. Did you notice that the RS players are actually a little faster than the TC:E players? I'm fine with that. The major turn off is the fantasy style jumping and acrobatics, e.g., balancing and running on the tops of fences or jumping down off tall heights in long diagonal arcs.

Do you see where I'm coming from? Can you understand why my Rogue Spear friends and the co-workers I played with would not go near TC:E?

Tactics, my friend, tactics. Fast paced tactics, but tactics nonetheless. The games were short, intense, and made the pulse quicken because you had to engage your brain and be a team player. It kept us glued to the CRT for years.




Thank you for listening, sir.

Please do. We're just tossing ideas around. Also, personally I don't agree with everything hoak says. With that said. (Also, that photo really made me laugh. I do miss my Legos.)


No need, really. *I* am not asking that the game be so "tactical gamer realistic" that every detail is micro-managed to death. But, some details really do count: jumping is one of them.



Expressing dissent is not offensive. I'm not offended. And yes, I do agree with the rest of your paragraph. Please see my reply to Eqpe here: http://www.truecombatelite.com/forums/v ... &start=587 Please read my post, watch the videos I linked to, and tell me what you think.



Agreed. I'm not advocating that either. Again, take a look at the videos I linked to in my reply to Eqpe. Rogue Spear and the like are very fast paced games.



I disagree with you here. I thought the focus of the game was evident from its title: CQB

I did some YouTube searching with the phrase "CQB" and could not find any examples where jumping of any sorts was part of any of the tactics taught or practiced. (Added: By videos, I meant actual CQB training and not gaming. Like: http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=cqb&um=1 ... 647d365714)

Even New York City Emergency Service Unit cops (known in other states and countries as S.W.A.T), who aren't as heavily armored or laden down with equipment, don't prance/jump around like players in TC:E. Not on roof ledges. Not on fences. Not on fire escapes. Those are very vulnerable places to expose oneself on.

Here's one video I found today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNj3wcOA ... relatedted

Please listen to what the instructor is saying at approximately 2:51. Listen to the overview of what CQB is at approximately 3:40:

"This is a real thinking man's game, because the are so many things to think about. ...Think about muzzle control, target discrimination, front sight focus. You want certain things to be involuntary. One thing you don't want involuntary is: pulling that trigger. Pulling that trigger... it has be something that is sure. Because if you involuntarily end up pulling that trigger, you end up shootin' the wrong person.You're in a room thats -what?- ten foot by ten foot in most cases, and you got 4 guys there shootin' right next to you. One slip... and it's over"

Do you understand the kind of realism that I'm advocating here?



Agreed. But I'm trying to point out the finer details of why games like Rainbow Six, Rogue Spear, and Raven Shield are still embedded in the hearts and minds of hundreds of thousands (millions?) of players the world over, and why a game like TC:E (and all the other Tactical/Arcadish games or mods) has been long forgotten.

And I'm hoping that maybe TC:CQB can recapture some of that magic. If it's done right, and people can try it for free, and play it on Windows, Mac, and Linux, and not need a $300 video card to play, I think it could capture and sustain a humongous audience. Mods like Red Orchestra did it because it wasn't trying to be a little bit of everything (i.e., balancing tactical realism with arcadish/counter strike qualities) to everyone. They had a focus, and for that were rewarded with a huge and loyal community for many years.

P.S. If you do go to a recruiting station, do me a favor: Bring along a small laptop and play the Rogue Spear video I linked to in my reply to Eqpe. Also bring the TC:E video as well. Ask him which one he would rather play if he was forced to be a FPS gamer for 6 months.

Cheers, and thanks for listening.

I actually misunderstood you, when you first came here, atleast on the pace part. I'm a bit divided in the fantasy jump part, parts of me still wants too keep it while other parts don't.

Coroner have anyway made it so that some unimaginable moves is atleast not able to be performed anymore.
I think that we could overcome the unimaginable moves without disabling the hump function (Coroner just decreased the jump height big time)

I suggest you to post in the G_realism thread about the pace!

No worries.

Man, I'm telling you: It's a wart you won't miss.

Ok, I'll see if I can find those posts.

I haven't ventured there yet. I'll go and take a look at what has been posted thus far.

Thanks.

I actually will, haha since it's one part of the tce charm for me. Just going to a server rushing and just having fun, with the game itself, including ladders, sliding and crazy moves .

That's also why I want the G_realism setting to fit me, which partly would be to have the jump function available and no reduced speed/pace. Because this would be where the completive and serious side of me will be. Ruling out to much functions and making it a turtle game would would alienate me.

turtle games like arma and AA exist already, but coroner thinks he can compete with those.

he can if he just could clone himself

Its not necessarily a turtle game. According to coroner he reduced the speed by only 15%. Currently its at 320 in tce so a 15% reduction would lead it to 272. I've already tested that speed on a private server along with heightened gravity to around 1000 ( currently at 800 ) and its actually alot more realistic than right now. The movements feel smoother and look real-er. I didnt understand coroner completely when he said, but i figured that the gravity was too low instead of twice as high.

If you want to test this for yourself on your own private server simply do this: (Im hoping this is as close as possible to CQB physics according to coroners blog post even though he didnt give any specifics.)

Start game open console and type:

*/seta sv_official 0
*/devmap obj_northport ( or any map that u might want to test )
*join a team
*the warmup duration is probably at 60 so just /g_warmup 10
*in console again, type /developer 2
*now type /g_Gravity 1000
*now type /g_Speed 272

Now test it. Its not slow at all, looks alot better.

Also: Everytime the match resets you have to change g_gravity again to 1000. The speed will stay the same at 272.

Have Fun!

Well you see some people want to slow it down further . Besides the speed that used atm is fine, according to real life, Attleast the sprinting.

I, for one, don't really have that much of a problem with TC:E's current speed. Its TC:E's speed in conjunction with its jumping/hopping & notoriously fast free-climb that is my biggest issue.

After watching some videos of Armed Assault 2 today, (having never played the game) I'd think the player speed is too slow. I'm not askin' for CQB to be Ghost Recon or America's Army. GR and AA really differ from games like Rogue Spear/R6 and Raven Shield.

I think one of the most popular expansion packs for a game, that is Rogue Spear, in its time was Urban Operations (Urban Ops, for short). The maps were smaller, but still sufficient for 8 vs 8 game play. The action was fast paced, tight, and a relatively short 4-6 minutes per round. TC:E and its maps really brought me back to the way we (and most of the huge RS community) would play Rogue Spear --except for... well, if you've read my previous posts then you already know.

Games like AA, GR, ArmA2, BF2, etc., are slower paced, last much longer, and have huge maps. I understand the difference and I don't think CQB fits into that category.

So, no. I don't want to see CQB's speed significantly reduced. IMHO: Fast, tight, but realistic tactics.

I hope that helps.

That sums it up for me!

Unfortunately, the gravity should be changed to 400 if you want to test like this. The two variables are in old game units (0.0254 meters) and converting the gravity of 9.81 m/s^2 yields about 390 units/s^2. You can't really test the new behaviour nevertheless, since you cannot change the jump velocity via console. Furthermore, I currently adjusted only the 'run' speed while all other speeds are the same, a behaviour which cannot be accounted for by changing console variables.

I very much agree that this, by no means, would be a turtle game. I do not agree that current TCE or CQB is very slow compared to the videos of RS cited above. These old games have totally off-scale environments which require apparently faster movement to compensate for the environment. Its a similar issue with AmArmy2.