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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:59 pm 
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Marksman
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Well we were back on topic :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:17 pm 
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Sharp Shooter
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Great, also if one would face away shouldnt he not be flashed too greatly? Im flashed a long time or barely any at random it seems.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:23 pm 
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Sharp Shooter
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HampsterNose wrote:
Great, also if one would face away shouldnt he not be flashed too greatly? Im flashed a long time or barely any at random it seems.


It's my understanding that the charge used for the flash nade would most likely be enough to at least white you out a bit. However, even if this weren't the case, the disorienting effect the concussion would have on you would generally be enough to make you utterly worthless for fighting for a good bit.

The developers have accounted for this by adding a ring to your ears if it goes off a bit too near. Not much in the way of benefits, but better than totally ignoring the fact that a charged nade just went off by your feet.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:38 pm 
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Marksman
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I played NS:CO last week for the first time and the effect the FB does in that game is perhaps also usefull for TC:E. The point where it exploded is extra white. You see a ghost image of the flash a long time.

Here we are talking about faced away explosions. What is said before: the ring effect is a good starter. It depends on the surrounding walls/floor how hard the flash bounces back. So you should be flashbanged inderectly.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:42 pm 
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Sharp Shooter
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I wasnt too sure what NS:CO was, but found it on google. For an aging Q3 I guess it looks cool for its day and sounded nice.... one look at the forum though, and I was appalled. :(


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:54 am 
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Master
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TheDamned wrote:
It would appear that since the aforementioned "arcade style" nades are currently in the game, that the choice was already made.

Hardly, TC:E has already seen five public revisions, and the lead Developer and Programmer, Coroner, has embraced the concept of incorporateing more scale in TC:E.

It's very easy to clone arcade shooters that are little more then a paint job on Q3A or Half-Life, it's a lot more work to actually create a realism game with a scale approch to world and weapon metrics. Coroner gave every appearance of being enthusiastic about my suggestion of a G_Realism var, and incorporating enough game variables and Fan accessable script that Mod-On-Mod creation is not only feasable but practical and an important part of True Combat: Elite's game design.

The critical issue in offering a game that will actually appeal to a Tactical Realism audience or offers modable means to that end, is that it must offer a fundimentally scale design in world and weapon metics and/or a range of vars that can be adjusted to scale. It's very easy to create any flavor of bouncy, skating, hopping, speed-whore, action-fantasy-magic realism game/mod/mutator on top of a game that offers an architecture that at least attempts to scale reality within the resolution limits of the engine -- but it's very difficult or next to impossible to go the other way and create a mod and mutator that turns a game that's fundimentally *i-need-a-broader-vocab* with regard to scale, and realistic metrics, and offers no means to go the other way.

TheDamned wrote:
Given that, I believe the discussion of what's working as it may have been intended vs. what isn't is pertinent.

You're certainly welcome to "believe" what ever floats your boat, that doesn't make your belifs fact or congruent with the desires, or intentions of others.

TheDamned wrote:
I agree with an earlier poster that stated that the introduction of truly realistic HE and Flash nades would turn the game into a mosh of dead teamates and eliminate any and all strategic hiding/ambush points on the current maps.

Again, you're welcome to agree with, and entertain any beliefs you choose, but that doesn't make them true, or even arguably vaid, especially when there are as many games that scale more realistic munitions then TC:E that are far more tactically and strategically sophistocated.

TheDamned wrote:
If one flash nade can successfully debiliate an entire room to the degree you have mentioned earlier then the essence of "fun" that is a fundamental requirement of most other "games" becomes mythical.

Paraphrasing a design concept out of context in order to create your own context to shoot it down doesn't validate your argument.

Moreover the concept of "Fun" is subjective, many thousands of game Fans pay over $300 U.S. to pay VSB·1, play it more then all the other games they own combined, and regard it as much more "Fun" -- and VSB·1 has 1:1 scale munitions with regard to damage radius and effects.

Similarly the munitions in games like:

· Red Orchestra
· Hostile Intent
· Ghost Recon
· Raven Shield
· SOAF
· Rogue Spear
· Rainbow Six
· Brothers In Arms
· IGI·2
· Elite Warriors Vietnam
· Line Of Signt: Vietnam
· Vietcong
· Vietcong 2
· KumaWar
· Deadly Dozen 2 Pacific Theater
· Operation Flashpoint
· SWAT 4
· Close Combat: First To Fight

... are vastly more powerful and realistic then the munitions in True Combat: Elite and work just fine. And there are a slew Tactical Realism modes for the aforesaid games and even a sloew of Action/Arcae realism games and mods that scale more realistic munitons.

Δ


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:45 am 
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Master
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..

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Last edited by flyhead(cn) on Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:55 am 
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Marksman
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Fly: Way to go, you just generalised a whole nation of children under one banner - Yay for sweeping statements. Hagen is Norwegian and old enough to know better (20+)

You might have noticed but we got back on track with the flashes so lets stay there.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:03 am 
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Master
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Oh yeah, GREAT job of staying on track, Dan...

:roll:

Why don't you and your pet Trolls stick to *i-need-a-broader-vocab* up the Official TC:E, the TC:E U.K., and NS:CO Fourms, you're not interested in this discussion anyway...

Stop pretending and flake the *i-need-a-broader-vocab* off...

:x :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:07 pm 
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Sharp Shooter
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Let's get back on track please.....


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:24 pm 
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Sharp Shooter
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hoak wrote:
Hardly, TC:E has already seen five public revisions, and the lead Developer and Programmer, Coroner, has embraced the concept of incorporateing more scale in TC:E.


Yes, and the nade strength and level of effectiveness hasn't changed one iota in those five revisions. Coroner can embrace whatever theories and concepts you claim he has, yet there's still no playable evidence that anything can/has/will change with regards to nades. I would most certainly love to see the HE and Flash gain a bit more potentency myself.



Hoak wrote:
You're certainly welcome to "believe" what ever floats your boat, that doesn't make your belifs fact or congruent with the desires, or intentions of others.


To be quite honest, I don't believe I ever said it did. And please refrain from "scolding" someone for something you have done yourself. You dismissed the continuation of this thread by stating your beliefs that the discussion currently being held was moot without clear objective design premise. Obviously some of us have differing opinions. We have a right to share those opinions, same as you. So kindly keep your reprimanding to yourself, hmm?


Hoak wrote:
Again, you're welcome to agree with, and entertain any beliefs you choose, but that doesn't make them true, or even arguably vaid, especially when there are as many games that scale more realistic munitions then TC:E that are far more tactically and strategically sophistocated.


Given what i've seen both in the online community of TCE and with countless hours of playing this game, the dynamics that have evolved within the players strategy and team cooperation as well as map layouts simply don't support (yes, in my opinion) a higher, realistic flash grenade. Can all of the above change to accomodate more realism so that some old fart can sit back and say "my, that's just like it was in the force? Of course it can. Should it? Well, that's another question altogether.

Please do not misinterpret me here. I am all for seeing a realistic, tactical game with relative scale hit the market. However, being a loyal follower of TCE, I also wish to see a finished, playable package that is fun, and not a mismatched grabbag of theories and facts that ruin the essence of the gameplay.


Hoak wrote:
Moreover the concept of "Fun" is subjective, many thousands of game Fans pay over $300 U.S. to pay VSB·1, play it more then all the other games they own combined, and regard it as much more "Fun" -- and VSB·1 has 1:1 scale munitions with regard to damage radius and effects.


Yes, and equally as many thousands/millions play Unreal Tournament, Quake3 and the like. Fun IS subjective, and certainly having a game with 100% realism and tactical awareness would be a refreshing change to the flood of first person shooters currently on the market. However, at some point down the line in it's development this game turned into something less than 100% real. Now, IN MY OPINION the game as it stands has a unique level of playability and an essence of fun that I, as well as numerous others can enjoy. I wish to see some things improved, and others changed utterly, but what I DON'T wish to see is another 3 years of waiting for a game which is, in it's beta testing already gaining a rather fanatic following, while the developers try to decide exactly how much weight the word "true" in True Combat should hold.

These are my opinions.


Last edited by TheDamned on Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:07 pm 
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Sharp Shooter
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flyhead(cn) wrote:
in my opinon twelve year old kids should *i-need-a-broader-vocab* off and go read books or smth.. what is it with american kids? they think they're so cool just cos they're american and can bitch about anything and get away with it.. dont ever let me see you in hong kong.


You have just shown your own age by this post. I happen to know that the majority of the bastards that are derailing this topic are from Norway and Sweden. . . NOT America.

Kindly refrain from making broad generalizations, as it generally serves no purpose other than showing what an assclown you are.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:31 pm 
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Marksman
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hoak wrote:
blabla Red Orchestra blabla

While red orchestra is a great game and the nade damage is more or less perfect, its also very different from TC:E. It got big open maps, not the chokepoint based (crap) maps we have in tc:e. There is enough nade spam as it is in tc:e and making nades (and flashes) more powerful will certainly not reduce that.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:39 pm 
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Marksman
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in another game I play, D-Day:Normandy (Quake 2 mod), the nades are pretty powerfull so seeing a nade flying is almost a certain death. This results in nade spamming because a nade landing near (and i'm talking less than 30m) will kill some one. I dont know how it works in the real world but running away from a nade wont save you i guess. On the other hand: this kinda realism gives us things like 'nade spamming'.

btw, nice you are native american speakers but ffs choose some more ordinary words, I'm just a Dutch guy, but i sometimes need the Oxford dictionary to read hoaks texts. I bet you can reduce your texts by 50%...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:19 am 
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Ok, back on track. On the main TCE forums...

Liquid, one of the dev's wrote:
these are stun grenades, not just flashing firecrackers, as said before they're poorly implemented and should be revised later on.


Hey, good news, right?


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