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knifing system
http://www.truecombatelite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1468		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  Dragonathan [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  knifing system
knifing system in TCe is just horrible, unrealistic, it takes 2 slashes to kill someone? im 100% sure in real life u arent able to kill someone with just 2 slashes, unless u use a freaking katana or something,

this game sepose to be realistic right? than why r the devs doing nothing about these unrealistic features?

there r 2 options to make the game more realistic:

1. if the devs r lazy to do something about the knifing system, i suggest to get rid of the knife ingame

2. instead of a slashing hit, devs should change it into a forward stabbing hit,
wich is more realistic because in real life u r able to kill someone with a straight forward stab, but u arent able to kill someone with a side slash, it wont penetrade the body well.
Author:  XenoKiLLer [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
In reality, frontal attacks would be more of stabbing as that gives the most damage and due to the length of the blade, slashing really wouldnt make and sense. Also, slashing wouldnt really cut through the armor.

From behind, it could be a slash, right at the throat, usualy involving a head lock then the slash or simply a stab to the neck.

Another method would be a knife throw, supposing there was to helmet or armor - but on specificaly unprotected areas of the body.

Again as with the rest these are pretty complicated, mostly because these are melee actions - the onle Quake3 based game to have a good melee system is Jedi Knight II and III. Everything else just just a single motion slash or cudgle attack (knife or the cudgling in CoD and CoD2 which BTW uses Q3e)
Author:  Dragonathan [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
XenoKiLLer wrote:
Another method would be a knife throw, supposing there was to helmet or armor - but on specificaly unprotected areas of the body.

ok this will never happen, so we can forget about it, and also i think feature such as throwing knife would kinda change the whole feel of realism, it kinda would degrade it, i know ive suggested this a long time ago, but after thinking really deeply about if this would fit TCe's style, i came to the conclusion that it wont fit TCe's style at all.

XenoKiLLer wrote:
Again as with the rest these are pretty complicated,

complicated? look made with the wet engine:
Image

another thing what i like to suggest is, to disable the knife untill all your ammo's are empty, after your ammo's r empty than the knife should be automaticly selected for u,

this will get rid of all the unrealistic "knife vs gun" issue.
i dont think in real life soldiers would choose a knife when his enemies r using guns, and ingame some players use knife at the start of the match,
imo it kinda ruins the realism.
Author:  XenoKiLLer [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Well hence the Quake factor for these games and games like it such as CS. I should call it Counter-factor instead. Quakish play style and ridiculous exploits and tactics. The knife simply has no place in the game as you could actually pick up enemy guns and so there really is no use for it in an action game. In a stealth game however, it makes a lot of sense.
Author:  Pancake [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dragonathan wrote:
another thing what i like to suggest is, to disable the knife untill all your ammo's are empty, after your ammo's r empty than the knife should be automaticly selected for u, this will get rid of all the unrealistic "knife vs gun" issue. i dont think in real life soldiers would choose a knife when his enemies r using guns, and ingame some players use knife at the start of the match, imo it kinda ruins the realism.


NO! People need to be able to do what they want. How realistic is it to not be able to draw your knife until your ammo is gone?

"Man, my knife is stuck in the sheath... oh yeah, lemme empty this clip into the wall then it won't be stuck anymore." Baheohaoha!

Sounds like people with guns are afraid of the people with knives...
Author:  Dragonathan [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pancake wrote:
"Man, my knife is stuck in the sheath... oh yeah, lemme empty this clip into the wall then it won't be stuck anymore." Baheohaoha!

Sounds like people with guns are afraid of the people with knives...


sometimes u have to sacrifice the player's freedom, in order to obtain realism.
Author:  Pancake [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dragonathan wrote:
Pancake wrote:
"Man, my knife is stuck in the sheath... oh yeah, lemme empty this clip into the wall then it won't be stuck anymore." Baheohaoha!

Sounds like people with guns are afraid of the people with knives...


sometimes u have to sacrifice the player's freedom, in order to obtain realism.


But what your suggesting isn't realistic ;) Not being able to use your knife is unreal.
Author:  Dragonathan [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pancake wrote:
But what your suggesting isn't realistic ;) Not being able to use your knife is unreal.


I allready explained wrote:
this will get rid of all the unrealistic "knife vs gun" issue.
i dont think in real life soldiers would choose a knife when his enemies r using guns, and ingame some players use knife at the start of the match,
imo it kinda ruins the realism.


u should go ask a soldier, ask him if he would use a knife in the middle of the mission when all his enemies r using a gun, he'd probably say "no"

dude dont get realism and hollywood mixed up.
once again: "sometimes u have to sacrifice the player's freedom, in order to obtain realism."
Author:  Pancake [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Uhm.
If you only had 3 clips of ammo and a knife would you shoot an unsuspecting enemy in the back or stab him and save the ammo for when you really need it?

Also stabbing isn't as loud as gun fire. Maybe you don't want to give your position up.
Author:  XenoKiLLer [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dragonathan wrote:
Pancake wrote:
"Man, my knife is stuck in the sheath... oh yeah, lemme empty this clip into the wall then it won't be stuck anymore." Baheohaoha!

Sounds like people with guns are afraid of the people with knives...


sometimes u have to sacrifice the player's freedom, in order to obtain realism.


Thats what AA did, and guess what, a lot of people hated it. They simply have to make the knife less efficient and find someway for a play to counter it - as in reallife, if they come to you with a knife try to manuever around them and cudgel them in the face.
Author:  -Aequitas- [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Dragonathan wrote:
XenoKiLLer wrote:
Another method would be a knife throw, supposing there was to helmet or armor - but on specificaly unprotected areas of the body.

ok this will never happen, so we can forget about it, and also i think feature such as throwing knife would kinda change the whole feel of realism, it kinda would degrade it, i know ive suggested this a long time ago, but after thinking really deeply about if this would fit TCe's style, i came to the conclusion that it wont fit TCe's style at all.

XenoKiLLer wrote:
Again as with the rest these are pretty complicated,

complicated? look made with the wet engine:
Image

another thing what i like to suggest is, to disable the knife untill all your ammo's are empty, after your ammo's r empty than the knife should be automaticly selected for u,

this will get rid of all the unrealistic "knife vs gun" issue.
i dont think in real life soldiers would choose a knife when his enemies r using guns, and ingame some players use knife at the start of the match,
imo it kinda ruins the realism.


Nice pic, I like the way he holds the knife...
Author:  it [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:43 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm about 85-90% sure that the way (in ET and in the screen you posted) the knives are held is incorrect. the former just looks too clumsy, and the latter is like an action movie (which many military people who's stories I've read have said is laughably bad (one of these dudes took out two armed insurgents in iraq. they had AKs, he had a Ka-bar))

I might be able to pull some strings and get a pic of the proper position (I think the way it is in TC:E is okay, I haven't chelcked lately, though.)
Author:  XenoKiLLer [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:23 am ]
Post subject: 
What's wrong with the handling in the pic is that holding it that way limits the swing angle you can do. Its very obvious. Holding it that way you only have that half of your body to do and effective swing plus in order to stab someone that way you would have to use more force since it is a back hand. Also the elbow doesnt bend in any way to support that and make the strike stronger.

The way it is held in TCE with the blade on top of your thumb is the better way -not necessarily correct or wrong for either but better- Why? You have a wider swing and trusts are physiologically stronger because your body can bend that way. What is wrong in TCE is that it kills with swings, it should be trusts.
Author:  it [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
if the thumb comes off the blade, I'm happy (I've been carving sticks and junk and had my thumb slip off. it made me lose my grip a little, not good when you're an inch into a dude's liver)
Author:  XenoKiLLer [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
In anycase the chances of needing to knife someone isnt really that realistic - this isnt Iwo Jima nor Vietnam - melee combat is simply a last resort in reallife and the chances of you running out of ammo in TCE and still be alive is very very unlikely - not to mention you can pick up other people's weapons.
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