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 Post subject: shiny graphics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:18 am 
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i think it would be better if the graphics of TCe would be more shinier,
i mean like saturated, and the metal textures like guns and metal/iron materials should like glimp a tiny little bit, perhaps some wall could glimp a little bit too. i think the devs would need some sort of a filter or something,

what i mean by shiny graphics, are graphcis that look like these:
http://static.flickr.com/40/125830481_24e7f52ecf_o.jpg
http://www.scubb.com/images/prd_detaile ... 03_ss1.jpg
http://image.jeuxvideo.com/images/x3/g/o/gofwx3167.jpg

well u kinda get my idea...
would give TCe a very intresting new appearance,

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Last edited by Dragonathan on Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Pics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:38 pm 
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3rd one looks a little cartoony.

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 Post subject: Re: Pics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:50 pm 
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what u mean cartoony?!:( graphics are amazing!!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:46 pm 
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You mean Full HDRI effects? So far TCE has bloom (excess/bleeding brightness) and Simulated HDRI via light mapped textures. TCE's HDR is simply fakes through the textures and its dynamic eye is just simulated.

R6Vegas and Gears of War both use the Unreal Engine 3. UE3 uses DX10 and DX9x rendering API which allows for a very very effect, efficient and accurate rendering of reallife HDRI effects. Sure we could make the bloom in TCE brighter, but it wont really amount to that quality.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:52 am 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
Sure we could make the bloom in TCE brighter, but it wont really amount to that quality.


even if it improves just a tiny slight bit, i still recommend the devs to do it,
evry smallest little tiny improvement COUNTS!. is the smallest things that often really matters.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:36 am 
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You do know that the difference will not really be noticeable as I said. Because the bloom in TCE is aready a white wash of everything you can see, brighter would simply look the same. Hence I said it wont really amount to the same quality.

Also, UE3 uses normal maps which are like bump maps but are mathematically more correct. This kind of mapping reflects light on every single bump map detail very accurately as if it was a high poly model which gives the HDRI bloom effect better detail on the models.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:59 pm 
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Ghost recon 3 and Rainbow Six Vegas use engine Unreal Engine 3.Unreal 3 engine having a licence fee of $750,000.
Truecombat:Elite use free engine Enemy terrtitory.

Dragonathan show free engines, example Existence 2.0

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:45 pm 
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Except one thing, we use the Quake3 engine used by WET. If we use the GPL Quake 3 engine we can get advanced features all the way up to Quake4 quality - however we void the copyright protection we get from WET. This leaves TCE's source code open to editing by simply anyone. We wouldnt want that would we.

There are a lot of high quality free game engines and renderers out there and they are GPL. The Unreal Engine 3 is just beyond the budget of any indie developer unless one of them is a millionaire.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:39 pm 
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Actually- I agree with dragonathon completeley. The look of the game at the moment is very monotone...when you turn the gamma up high everything is bright and when it is down everything is dark..I would prefer to see mapdesign with a lot more very dark sections (not shadowed areas, just make dark things darker and light things lighter)..and then when the gamma is raised for them to be seen, you have a nice contrast of extreme light and dark...something which I think tc:e lacks at the moment.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:06 pm 
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hey hobo, i dont know if you ment it sarcastic or whatever, but please keep it on topic,
this whole thread isnt about dark and light, its about shiny saturated graphics, used in games such as: ghost recon AW, FEAR, Rinbows 6 Vegas,

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:37 pm 
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no i was being serious and i was more on topic than you were.

shiny and saturated mean COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS

you ask for more shiny graphics? Better contrast is that. Tc:e is already quite saturated which adds to the realistic quality of the graphics. you posted 3 entirely different screenshots that use completely different rendering techniques...



1. GRAW which is very washed out and saturated, with like a sepia filter applied (im not a fan)

2. Vegas - the screenshot simply shows lots of nice CONTRAST and HDR lighting coming through the window....the colouring is stil fairly rich

3. Gears....which is just a game with real nice graphics (again looks especially good with its light and dark areas in close proximity...)


so no we kinda dont get your idea.


Last edited by HoboCoP on Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:38 pm 
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shiny and saturated? Nobosy runs around wearing anything shiny. GRAW doesnt have anything shiny, everything just looks bright because it has true HDR support. HDR is suppose to be the light of the sun bleeding over edges and the reflections properly reflected giving radiosity effects to objects nearby. (Say a red light by a white wall - the white wall will appear red - then if a ball were blocking the light from your sight, the light bleeds a corona around it. Say there is a window and it is bright outside - the light outside bleeds into the darker room where you are in making the window frame look like it is glowing. THe opposite of that is when you are outside looking into the dark room, outside the room looks pitch black but it really isnt)

In the case of R6Vegas, everything looks shiny because of two words. Las Vegas. You are in a casino practically made up of lightbulbs everywhere. The lights are obviously everywhere creating bleeds and radiosity on all the objects in the scene. Having that many lights actually doubles the polygons rendered and the number of render passes - decreasing performance.

What I do know about the Quake3 engine is, the more lights in the map, the more polygons it is, meaning the lower the performance. No amount of tweaking will change this except turning off 80% of those lights. This is probably why the devs used prelit textures and light maps - but those do not emit light nor do they effect the lighting on player models.

Face it, you want a good looking game with all those effects go play something else. For now TCE has to stay this way, if they ever switch to a much better version of the engine, that would be the day but it isnt coming anytime soon because the only choice is Quake3 from WET, Quake3GPL mods, and a complete rebuild of the game on another free engine.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:42 pm 
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HoboCoP wrote:
you posted 3 entirely different screenshots that use completely different rendering techniques...so no we kinda dont get your idea.


all 3 use different rendering techniques, but all 3 have shiny/saturated kinda graphics, point of the pictures is to make people fully understand what i mean by "shiny graphics"

XenoKiLLer wrote:
In the case of R6Vegas, everything looks shiny because of two words. Las Vegas. You are in a casino practically made up of lightbulbs everywhere.


not all maps in r6vegas r in casino's, they r all shiny looking.

XenoKiLLer wrote:
What I do know about the Quake3 engine is, the more lights in the map, the more polygons it is, meaning the lower the performance.


u dont have to add more polygons for shiny looking graphics,

XenoKiLLer wrote:
Face it, you want a good looking game with all those effects go play something else. For now TCE has to stay this way,


funny thing is, before 0.49 was released, i suggested to improve the graphics so many times, i got flamed for it many times, evryone kept telling me things like: "it's impossible.." "it is fine the way it is bllaaa blaaa blaaa,"

but hey, look at how TCe looks today,
:wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:17 pm 
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I dont think you get the idea with the polygons.

Look, a single level in a game, lets use TCE for example, let us say on the room you are viewing there are 2000polygons. Adding 1 light to that, increases by a certain percentage, maybe 2200polygons. The extra 200 physically does not exist in the mesh but it is rendered. However let us say you have 6 lights, bloom effects and shadows all in the same scene - this immediately increases the strain on the system - becasue the polycount did increase beyond the mesh default all this just to render the lighting and shadowing effects.

A more detailed explanation of this would be far too technical but it has to do with the Quake3 engine and basically every idSoftware engine after that. We cannot have too many lights, too much effects, too many shadows. Sure they will make the game look good but at what cost? performance? No amount of optimization can fix this because a improperly made map with far too many lights and objects to cast shadows will simply bring down performance.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:44 pm 
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if more fancy effects are added to TC:E, look forward to an increase in system requirements, massive frame rate drops, etc. a good example is fueldump in noquarter. because of the extra features they added, even with 256 or more megs of ram allotted to ET, I can go down to about 5-6 FPS with a fair number of players.

and it's not my 2.81 GHz CPU, 2 GB (after other processes) of spare RAM, or my 256 MB NVIDIA 7300 GT GPU. it's because of all the stuff they added, not my system. personally, I would rather see the maps stay with the requirements they have than go up.

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