yet another question
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Author:  Shiro013 [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:18 am ]
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Aha, first one to say it, psychological warfare, thats enough to kill a man right there, that should be what gets most attention. And to be a Marine, you pass your Basic, and your advanced training, and congrats, your a Marine, nothing really to do with anything a normal 11B doesn't do.

Author:  Death Touch [ Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:29 am ]
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Aha, first one to say it, psychological warfare, thats enough to kill a man right there, that should be what gets most attention

Care to explain?

Author:  Shiro013 [ Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:09 am ]
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Psychological warfare, few military units go over the mental part, other than the "mantra", The ability to use mind over pain. It gives the soldier the ability to over take any pain, obstacal, enviornment, and enemy, without feeling pain, panic, or any kind of feeling that could hamper the soldiers ability to fight. So in other words, the soldier can fight, and not worry about pain, it also means the soldier is extremely smart in combat situations, and non-combat situations. This is the part of the SF that is the hardest, and is where most soldiers fail, usully failing, and ending up going crazy. A soldier that can use his mind and overcome any threat, is what is refered to as,
"The Ultimate Soldier". The SEALs, Air Force Para, and the Marines, do not cover this. This is what sets them apart. The Army puts it to so much of a degree, few soldiers pass the training because of this, not the physical parts. It has been known to make a soldier or two almost go crazy, it's very hard to overcome and learn.

As for Army SF, the SF's do everything SEALs do, and everything Air Force Para do. And then tack more on, an SF ODA can go through the desert, through the rain forest, through Siberia, and it won't phase them what happened, water, is nothing to SF, Army SF in some units actually trains with some SEALs, then goes back to other stuff. And then, they will go through parachuting, and must pass both normal parachuting, and then finish HALO training. SEALs do a lot of work on land, but are usually more water based entry, and never go deep into land. Air Force Para is obviously airborne all the way. Army SF trains in all of this. Army SF is like the Marines, put up 10000 notches.

One of the coolest thing SEALs do, (Army SF also does) Is if they need to enter off a sub, they get in the torpedo tube, it fills with water, and then they are launched out. :D I think that'd be cool to try. :lol:

Author:  Death Touch [ Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:07 pm ]
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Psychological warfare, few military units go over the mental part, other than the "mantra", The ability to use mind over pain

Psychological warfare is tactic used against the enemy to confuse and disorient them. It is not a training tool designed to teach soldier to overcome pain. I believe you have this mixed up.

This is the part of the SF that is the hardest,

Actually Shiro, if you haven't been in Army SF you have no idea what is the hardest. For some, it could languages, for others, it could triannig foreign units. And others, it could be the EMT, or ven scubs or para. And for others, it could be that they have still not achieved their rank yet to even enter SFQA.
I have not been in the military and I for one will never assume certain opinions as facts. Each person is different, and we all respond differently. Like everything else,you just don't know until you've done it. Even I know this.

The SEALs, Air Force Para, and the Marines, do not cover this

Again, Shiro, no offense, but this is specualtion. It is true, that SOF DO emphasize psychological preparedness techniques for Escape and Evasion and resistance to torture if captured more so over regualr units, but all military training do teach the recruit "mind over matter" and resistance to pain/fatigue.

This is what sets them apart.

What? Resistance to pain is what sets Army SF apart from other SOF and military units? I don't think so. It is much more than that, yet at the same time Army SF and SEALS can fulfill the same roles needed in combat operations. While USAF ParaRescue are exclusively CSAR units.
Marines are multi function units as well but Marines are not SOF. They have MEU which are Special Operation Capable and they now have the Special Operations Detachment One which has been inducted finally into USSOCOM.

an SF ODA can go through the desert, through the rain forest, through Siberia, and it won't phase them what happened, water, is nothing to SF

I'm sorry but this statement is a little on the Jedi worship side. Shiro, SEALs and AF Para do this too. They have to.SEALS and AF have training and units established in all parts of the world. They are familiar with Arctic climates and combat in them, as well as desert environments yada yada.
And as far as "water is nothing to SF", I bet they can move the X Wing Fighter with their mind too, right?

they will go through parachuting,

ALL SOF units have to be Airborne qualified. With the exception of units like US NAVSPECWAR Special Boat Units.

and then finish HALO training.

HALO is nothing new to SEALs and AF ParaRescue.

but are usually more water based entry

How does this explain Afghanistan? SEALs will infiltrate and extract with whatever means they need to . Same with AF PJs. They may infiltrate by fastrope with a helo, and exfiltrate by boat at sea, or ground vehicle, or even make it to an airport and leave by C130. This is not a god rule to use for comparison. The mission dictates, Shiro, and so do circumstances. Remember Bravo Two Zero.

Anyway, thanks for the lenghty reply. And don't be mad at my reply. This is just a conversation, no flames, Shiro.

See you soon.


Author:  XenoKiLLer [ Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:10 pm ]
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:lol: Got you good there Shiro13. but really you did get mental training wrong, you must have heard that from watching the Rambo movies. (I specifically remember John Rambo saying that he is trained to mentally ignore pain) The mental training is meant so taht the soldier can keep their focus and their minds clear of the possiblity of failure and death and keep them at 100%. It prevents them from going into various states of mental incapacity - apparently as I see in the news last year, many US army soldiers are getting the effects of a lack of mental preparedness - as in they were constantly attacked by insurgents that most soldiers cant a get a grip on reality to a point that they cant feel a knife in the leg.

SFQA? Isnt it SFAS (Assessment and Selection).

an SF ODA can go through the desert, through the rain forest, through Siberia, and it won't phase them what happened, water, is nothing to SF

It certainly does sound like worship - as I recall certain SF ODA's are speciallized for certain theaters. But they dont necessarily do go through any terrain, weather, climate, situation and cmeout of it like nothing happened. Ofcourse after each mission they are tired and exhausted, they are humans not John Rambo (who just took out 50 russians and an MiHind Attack helicopter then walks out of it like nothing happened and in full stamina to go celebrat with the locals)


Just join the army, qualify for SF, and tell us about it when you are done.

Author:  Shiro013 [ Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:33 am ]
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I didn't mean nothing happened, I meant more along the lines of, an SF soldier won't walk into a water enviornment and have no idea what to do, and the other way around. They are trained for all of them, the SEALs being used are still being put in by a water based insertion, they had to be trained specially for this war.

I don't see why anyone understands this, Air Force is a bunch of wussies with little training, Marines are a bunch of ass whipes lost in the woods without a compase, SEALs aren't meant for all enviornments, and are not trained to near what the Army SF does, only the Army SF is trained to do it all, the others must be specially trained to do everything, you stick an SF unit in there, and they will have no problem with it, maybe you don't understand. I guess I'll take this elsewhere.

I'm trying to find someone without there own little theories of what they do.

Author:  Death Touch [ Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:10 am ]
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I'm so not going to get into an argument here, 'cause I can't believe what I'm reading...

I was so positive that this was going to go like this.......

....oh well.

Look, just read this. This has a little bit of info. It's not much. And it may not change your mind. ... os_Who.htm

I just say that all of what I commented on is common knowledge. Nothing special or top secret at all.

I will say this, I have regular friends in the military.
There's no way I can say this without it looking like I am showing off what I know. But here goes...
I have friends whom I work with and associate with on a daily basis that are active or retired military.
2 Army Rangers
2 Former Navy Seamen
2 currently preparing to enter Naval Special Warfare.
1 former Army Airborne.
1 current Army SF
2 former Marines
2 former Army Mechanized Infantry Tank Crew
2 current US Army
1 Army Combat Medic
1 former Marine , now in USAF
1 Army National Guard

So basically, in daily talking with them I have picked up on the stuff they comment on. Plus any reading I have done on these topics, and watching Documentarys I have become informed on some of this basic stuff like anyone can.
That's why I say what I wrote is basic common knowledge, not "little theories".

Last, bit not least, I personally take offense to ANYONE who regards our military with language such as "wussies."
I won't say anymore on what I think of people who have never seen combat or even been in the military, much less, even been near a freakin' gun and say erroneous perceptions like these.

Shiro, it may help you in the future to be more judicious in your language and tone of your posts. This is a free forum, but you do not bring honor nor respect to yourself nor these brave men and women by spouting such nonsense as that.
I say close this topic if we're going down this route.
Again, no offense to you Shiro. But think about what you post before, my friend.

Diane, take note.

Author:  it [ Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:56 pm ]
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Death Touch wrote:
2 Former Navy Seamen

you said seamen...

meh, I'm not in the military, never will. so I can't say.

Author:  XenoKiLLer [ Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:33 pm ]
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Actually the airforce gets the exact same training as the army and the marines. ALl basic training and evaluation are the same for ever branch of the military. and if you think flying at mach6 is easy.. you must over doing that mantra. 8)

Author:  Shiro013 [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:17 am ]
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Overdoing the mantra is the point. And besides, I've done mach 1 in a Falcon, HOOAH!! Now that, was cool. Also went like 500 Mph in a MiG15. :P Old planes, but it'll still give you a head rush. Also been in a B17, and a B52, the B17 was actually flying, the B52, wel......... sitting on the ground. :? I have seen too many planes to want to join any Air Force, I've seen, A-10's, B17's, B24's, B26's, B52's, B1's, B2's, C47's, C5's, C130's, KC'130's, F1's, F2's, F14's, F15's, F16's, F117's, F18's, yeah you got the idea, seen many more as well. :P Several Helo's too, and tanks/armored vehicles.

Author:  XenoKiLLer [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:30 pm ]
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then why not just join the airforce, it is unlikely that you will be flying all those.

Author:  Shiro013 [ Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:03 am ]
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Xeno, seen too many planes. Thats the point, heck, I've flown quite a few planes. Got to fly an old C47 a guy owned from WWII and had it still running.
Planes get boring to me at some point, I'd join the Navy, but like I've said more than enough times, they don't do what I want anymore.

Author:  XenoKiLLer [ Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:20 pm ]
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Ofcourse not there arent any full scale wars going on.

Author:  Shiro013 [ Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:27 am ]
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Even if they did, they wouldn't bring back the BB's, and the big guns, most of the BB's are already decommisioned, sure that didn't mean anything before, but the Navy sold them and they are now museums and crap. They aren't on moth balls anymore, and I doubt they'd make anymore BB's anyway.

Author:  XenoKiLLer [ Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:33 am ]
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technically war today is very diferrent like 200 years ago they are fought mostly by infantry and artillery in ranks and columns. Somewhere around 100 years ago war was fough in trenches and smaller groups of soldiers outside formation and the development of the highly inaccurate automatic weapons. 60 years ago it was fought by high speed aircraft and large coastal artillery and even smaller highly organized yet seeming formation less squads. Today, it is fough by missiles guided by satelites and super sonic bombers that come in drop the payload and get out. Cavalry and infantry are also slowly being replaced by droids and automatons. You see, war changes throughout the years and there is not enough room for all the old relics. -BTW why do you want to join the military and actually look for a war?

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