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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:25 am 
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I know kinfes are not very realistic, but omg, I would love to slit some throats :twisted: Call me short stop, poor guy taking a nap, well don't waste a bullet on him, use more, unconventional methods, and, I was reading on www.navy.mil, that the Navy SEALS are not to be compared to Army Special Forces, that SEALS are tained almost like a conventional soldier, but to a much higher degree, while SF are put through different situations, and are trained better, now is that like shooting yourslef or something? :? They just said don't join us, join the Army, LOL!! :lol: It also says on the 21st SF battalion, that they are not to be compared to Navy SEALS, like the SF walked up behind a SEAL and said, ok buddy, you are going to put on your site, that we are better than you, while he has a knife to his throat and gritting his teath. :P

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:55 pm 
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well the seals are trianed like the marines for assault purposes, except that the seals do it in much smaller numbers in stealth. The Army SF however train for different specializations because they are tained to handle situations where killing the enemy isnt the only way to complete the objective and sometimes it isnt the best option because of civilians..

The knife in AA has been discussed over and over in the main forums, they will not add the knife because of the rest of the game is based on real military training, they only want to teach you what you cannot do (shoot because you cant get the military grade guns). As you can see they dont have any form of melee combat.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:36 pm 
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Melee is a significant part in military training though. But it would be very difficult to implement to the game.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:16 pm 
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they will teach you how to do things but they wont teach you how to kill people. (the shooting part goes gainst what I just said, but is it possible to actually learn shooting a gun from a game that may look like it shows you how to but it doesnt really teach you). The army is trained in various ways to make melee combat as lethal as their guns, and since this type of combat can easily be practised by anyone who knows the process they didnt add it to AA. (also includes the SF neck breaking manouver, they dont the wrong people knowing how they do it quick and presice)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:55 pm 
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Ahh yes, plus AA was made to encourage people to be interested in the Army, not teaching how to kill, also why the points for kills are not awarded, only objectives and leadership. Lol, like most of us don't already know how to break a neck fairly easy, and another way to get a kill with a knife, is not the throat, but to stab the knife in the back, right by the spine, and twist, it seperates vertabrate, and well kills them, and does it alot more silently, usually slitting the throat will cause the person to start coughing and gagging, trying to get in air, which could wanr the enemy, while stabbing the back and twisting, is silent, and makes no warnings.

But yes, AA was made for more of the teaching of teamwork and how to opperate as a unit, not to kill, so I can see why they don't add it, and it's not very realistic, using a knife as an 11B is the last thing you want to do, since most infantry missions are not covert, silence is not needed, and using a knife brings the risk of the enemy seeing you first, and shooting, while you shooting is a much better route to take. But some more covert missions with the SF do require stealth.

Usually the SEALS do work in small teams, but are a head on assault, they are go in take it out, and get out, SF are bigger because usually the fire teams will split up and make diversions. For example: team A causes a big comotion in the front square, while team B flanks silently, and team C plants the demolitions, and normally the team leader will go with team A. And SF refer to it as a team, not a squad, being A team, and B team, B team is basically base. While the A team is the soldiers, and assault. So while team A is making a ruckace in the front, team B comes in behind, and takes them down, while in all of this, team C has been planting explosives and traps, and other diversions under the diversed enemy, which will usually be the two 18C's, and an 18B and 18Z.

SEALS work as more of a silent go in and take it out without a trace, SF can do this, but normally do not need to, SEALS work as small groups of like 5 or 6, making them a quick moving silent team, but SF takes a different approach and makes diversions to ensure the mission is a success, and again, should the SF need to, they can go fully covert. Also SEALS are trained as a go in get out, not get in and stay in, usually once SF gets in, they stay in, and get what they need, and live with the people under concealment.

And I was reading, you would think the two main parts of SF being the 18C and 18B would have the longer training, but when you look at it, which makes sense, actually the 18B and 18C are the shortest, which makes sense, the 18D is trained to save lives, not take them which is much harder, and the 18A has to command all of this, also the 18E is longer as well, lots of singnaling crap out there to play with. :P

And another thing not added in AA, the SF quite offen use a wire, been used since WWI, you just take it, slip it around a persons neck, and strangle them, killing them quite quick while it also cuts off blood circulation, and causes the soldier to instantly drop his gun, so the threat is basically eliminated. :D So I can see why the more close combat methods are not used, too many kids play the game, and the Army doesn't need a ton of angry moms after them :P

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:19 am 
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the SEALS work more undercover or in secret from the enmy while the green beret are kinda upfront and direct. Well the moms cant do anything about it, why not let them have melee violence on the pc while you get that same violence from console, tv, and movies. The army doesnt concern that actually, the main reason they did that is because they want to keep the T rating and not make the army look like it is teaching people to kill each other, but mostly the teen rating as to get a larger "legal" audience. (not that it is illegal to play games beyond the ratings appropriate to you.)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:51 am 
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I'm surprised the military wouldn't implement lethal moves in melee or hand to hand combat...

I take Krav Maga and I actually know about a dozen moves that can unarm an opponent or kill them.

But I kind of wandered off topic so I apologize...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:26 am 
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For some reason, whenever I play AA, I feel like I'm playing Army propaganda. I know that's a harsh word to use, but it's true. Gameplay, not really. But flashing those Soldier's Creed and Army Values for loading screens kinda ticked me off. It's like seeing Gilette ads in Need For Speed. I know it's a free game and all, and I'm not anti-Army or government in any way, but between that and not being able to play as the bad guys, it was all too much for me.

To my knowledge, SEALs are generally used for stealth strikes where swim-in or procure-your-own-extraction is used. They also generally have smaller units. The Army SF is for helicopter-in, hike-through-a-city-to-get-to-a- stronghold operations.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:42 am 
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Hey, just a heads up.

IT IS ARMY PROPAGANDA!!!

I'm sorry, but there's no way to put that nicely.

It's intended to give the actual US Army a positive impression. But for some reason, it kind of makes killing in the US Army alright. :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:52 am 
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And after playing it, who doesn't want to go join up and start your training, I mean come on. Although WWIII is coming, might be a bad time for to join up. :P Kind of got the ass end of the deal when it came to my lifetime. :roll:

US Army

And yes it is propaganda, they never come out and say it, but it is a recruiting tool.

US Army

And I don't see why everyone wants to play as a terrorist anyway, aren't we supposed to be against them, although half the terrorists we say we are killing had nothing to do with anything.

US Army

Which we never get a true fix on what nation the terrorists are from, probably to keep everyone happy. 8)

US Army

Also true is that quite a few countries play this game, top being US obviously, Germany, and the Portuguese. :?

US Army

But I must say, this game has had a little influence on me if I should join or not.

US Army

But when your Sergeant asks you, "What did you join for?" Don't tell him, "Well AA was fun, figured it would be close to the same."

US Army

Now I want to see America's Navy, that sounds like fun, lets go bombard some shores, and do some broadsides, although that was throan out the window with the guns, as well with shore bombardment kind of as well. :?
But I just avoid the advertisements, well I don't avoid them, I just don't really think about it, I find it cool to be playing a game made by the
US Army makes me feel important or something. :P

No propaganda was used in the making of this post

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:23 am 
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Xeno, catch me on Xfire when it comes out, maybe we can get some realism in a game, not rambo gaming style, with the AI missions it just means they are going to be screwing up missions and rushing forward and not going for the supprise element, which I would really not like to see, maybe after a while we can get the rushers picked out when they get killed all the time, and the serious people will be left, the ones that manage to win.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:27 am 
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I dont think ill be rushing the AI until I know how they think. I will probably do a decoy style of strategy where letting the enemy's bulk come out and get mowed down whil we sneak in the otherside. with the PDMs, trapping them wont be so hard to do.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:22 am 
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Well you see, that will work, it's not rambo, and it's a good strategy. But begin me, I still like the more silent approach, but thats just me, but yes, your idea would work hopefully, just as long as the enemy doesn't get the idea to start flanking in mass numbers. 8) Two 18Z's wait ouside with SAW's, camped out in the woods a little ways back, while 4 18C's flank behind the guards and take them out, and then wait to enter the compund, (this is a snow map btw) 2 18B's wait in the woods a ways back as well, spread out though, one 18C lobs a grenade into the compound, the enemy is then scared and either runs out, or gets blown up, any runners get mowed down or sniped, the 18B's I would say basically cover the 18Z's, once all runners are eliminated, the 18C's cover the 18Z's while they move forward to join the 18C's, the 4 18C's then enter safely and quietly, the 18Z's cover the 18B's as they move up as well, and thats still just 8 guys, 2 18C's wait oustdie and cover the Humvee, and outside to make sure reinforcements cannot enter, along with another 18Z and an 18B supporting them. then the 2 18Z's enter, followed by the 18B's, the 18C's take down the inner door to the main facility, they rush in, killing everyone in sight other than themselves, they place the explosives, then move deeper into the facility taking out what they need to, then, when all explosives are planted, they exit safely, and retreat to a safe distance, and blow the compound sky high, kind of based it on a weapons cache or fuel depot, something like that, but thats what I want one to be like, but with alot more action, alot more entries, different kinds of enemies, I want to see these BTR's, BMP's, and this T80, can't wait to see those, although they aren't drivable by the player since they are enemy vehicles, and probably all you will do to them is shoot them down :P Or attempt to atleast, and I want these missions to last a little bit, not be 10 minute missions, and I really want them to be highly orginized.

My theory is, the rambo players will attempt to rambo all they can, and will eventually in about a week get pissed off and leave, or try it in an orginized manner, giving the players that want to play it right a better chance to without the nucances, I want a team that actually listens to there squad leader and there fireteam leaders, I was playing dockside last night, I was squad leader, I said ok, this time, we are going to throw all the frags we got onto that roof, a bunch said ok, yeah, we can do that, well when we did it, an allie that didn't listen slipped up to the top, we didn't know he was there, of course after I yelled report in a few times, he still didn't, so we lobbed a bunch of frags up there, of course my frags hit him, killed him, got me a ton of ROE, I got kicked, came back, and the admin told me to say bye bye to to the guy that didn't listen, I thought I was going, so I said bye, and BAM, he was gone, LOL! That was a good day because I actually had a team that listened to me. :D Now thats a rarety. :)

Anyone know, are the missions gonna be like War Rock where you start a room, people come in, and then you start it, or is it gonna be you have to wait, and it's going to be like a normal game, but you still might not have who you want there?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:48 pm 
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Since we only have the HMMWV at that time, running into those heavy armors isnt going to be good. Best thing you can do is try to get them as far away from the objective as posible so that a small team could somehow sneak in quietly. If you can get in , get the objective, and get out without making as much noise nor killing that many people than that would be the most effective and efficient strategy. The thing is, we could set up 18B and 18Z strike teams to give support fire while the main fireteam will sneak behind the enemy who re trying to supress our support team. This is where PDM mines come in handy especially infront of doors. It would be good if they didnt have a time limit, instead your overall score is determined by how fast and how succesful (giving no points for kills but points for avoiding kills) you can get in do your mission and get out.

It is a rare situation where a team will actually cooperate. but with coop, and 9 players its unlikely that we will run into those rambo again. They wouldnt last long anyway since a 16 on 16 match is very different from a 32 on 9 coop game, and even if those AI might not be so bright when it comes to shooting and actually killing you, superior numbers against one man doesnt assure victory, unless yourre somekind of UniSol or John Rambo. Since coop was design to be played as a team and can only be won as a team, these rambo guys would probably stay away from it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:18 am 
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I guess I forgot about the mines. :? lol. But my though there was if we took out the tanks, thats what shuld happen next. I would think they would give us At4's hopefully, maybe we can pratice some tank removal. Nail them right in the middle of the tracks, that immobilizes the tank, and usually once a tank is immobilized, it's a sitting duck. Now I am figuring since it is AA and it is the Army's game, week spots in tanks should be implemented, but I'm not sure. My dad was in the Army, and I got to a class with him on how to take down tanks, so I am well knowledged in this field. (I was noly 7 when I took it, but I remeber most the main points :wink: ) I just got to go to the class though, not the training, obviously. We used to live on a base, so we got to go see him alot and take quite a few classes as well. Until now the AT4 has kind of been useless, should have used the BDM on the walls and stuff. Maybe one of the missions we can parachute in. :D

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