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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:57 pm 
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Dragon, those pictures have the gun waist level, what part of the picture made you think that the person is aiming with the guns ironsights? I dont know where you get that idea that those pictures were aiming with the ironsights. THe ingame modesl cant move the gun very close to the face because the model's arms will pinch and fold into something that looks like a kitchen wrap tube folded in half.

Did I ever say it will blur if hold hold it waist level? Think before you write. The reason why the example I posted didnt work for you is because you didnt follow it exactly. Your eyes were so busy trying to see if there was a blur on the hand close to your eye that your eyes were focused on that hand thus making it much clearer. Why dont you go to the US army's forums and ask them. http://forums.americasarmy.com

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:50 pm 
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I found it kind of difficult to understand also.

And, Dragon...
THUMBNAIL YOUR PICTURES OR DIANE WILL HAVE YOUR BALLS IN A SAILOR KNOT!!!iii *loud noise*

~Silentcrisis

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:30 am 
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Forget sailor knot. I'll get a surgical knife, and I know how to use one. (no really, I do know how to use a surgical knife, firstaid thing and stuff)

Dragon, even if the devs try, with the current limitation of an MD3 mesh, they cant do anything to make it better than it is without having to change to MD4 which isnt supported by the engine's current state (only one game has ever used it).

You know, actually, you can see the gun when its on waist level. THe human eye can see in more than one 2d plane. It goes to somewhere like a little over 180 degess on a horizontal plane where the angles near 180 and over a slightly blurred or partially blind. Then same goes for vertical. The rest of you try this, hold a book waist level and look straight ahead, check to see if you can still see the book without moving you head or eyes. Thats what I seem to have noticed. So, they really did model it more corretly than you said. The thing is, the gun isnt really held at waist level. It is only the third person point of view model that is screwed up.
When you hold a gun (not using the ironsights) you hold the grip with your arm in a slight L shape, but it int a 90 degree angle but more of a 60-70 degree angle. Why? Check out how the stock is shaped, it was meant to be rested on your arm with enough vertical room to grip the grip with your hand. So technically, The gun is really held higher than waist level, its more like near the middle of the torso.

I would also point out that noone shoots a gun like that. You dont hold it all the way down to your waist and stand at that angle. Normally you stand with the gun facing the side rather than directly forward in comparison to your body. The reason for that is you dont want to get broken ribs when the recoil of the stock hits you, another reaon is the stock is meant to be rested on your arm, you cant hold the weapons, rest it on your arm in a direct forward manner. (FYI that would appear like holding the gun to one side of your body).

So, to summarize this, the third perosn model is whacked. The first person view doesnt really have anything to do with the 3rd person model. Its just a camera attached to the head. Since it isnt really a pair of eyes looking out but one single lensed camera, it doenst blur in distance (near or far) or angle, and perspective looks like crap.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:13 pm 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
So, to summarize this, the third perosn model is whacked.


exactly.
all i have to say is,

when you hold your rifle like this:
Image


than the 3rd person model shouldnt look like this:
Image

but something like this:
Image

and thats why the devs better fix this, because its extremely unrealistic,



P.S. stop bullshitting about "per vertex" enough allready,
this topic isnt about how long it will take to fix that,
and i dont have to know they have to make it per vertex, you keep saying that on almost evry suggestion post, post something useful, good comments, and stop saying "but they have to do it per vertex, 1000 of lines,, blaaa blaa blaa" no hard feelings, but it is really useless.

Thanks.

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Last edited by Dragonathan on Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:10 pm 
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Dragon, listen to me. Stop posting full scale images. At least thumbnail them for Christ's sake.

I stressed this point a couple posts up bit its really obvious that your oblivious-self didn't listen.

Diane is going to have puppies one day because of you.

~Silentcrisis

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:44 pm 
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Silentcrisis wrote:
I found it kind of difficult to understand also.

And, Dragon...
THUMBNAIL YOUR PICTURES OR DIANE WILL HAVE YOUR BALLS IN A SAILOR KNOT!!!iii *loud noise*

~Silentcrisis


just gotta add this in:

Moocow wrote:
I was think about something involving:
1 rusty spoon
A meat tenderizer
A Vice
His balls.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:10 pm 
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Now, the only way to have that gun moved up a little higher without having the model's pinch and fold is to use a different mesh. The MD3 mesh just isnt capable of that. The MD3 has separate limbs as opposed to the 1 solid mesh used by skeletal systems. You cant bend the parts they just roll around the joints of each other part. In otehr words, trying to move the gun up will make it look like the forearm has split in two and the elbow down is hovering mid air with a big rip.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:52 am 
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Yeah, and they get a stretched out look to them.

Hehe, stretch marks. :lol:

~Silentcrisis

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:14 pm 
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XenoKiLLer wrote:
Now, the only way to have that gun moved up a little higher without having the model's pinch and fold is to use a different mesh. The MD3 mesh just isnt capable of that. The MD3 has separate limbs as opposed to the 1 solid mesh used by skeletal systems. You cant bend the parts they just roll around the joints of each other part. In otehr words, trying to move the gun up will make it look like the forearm has split in two and the elbow down is hovering mid air with a big rip.


how do you know it? have you tried it yet, and saw how it looked,

serieus, if you keep worrying about how difficult is gonna be,
and how long it will take to change something in the game,

sinds you keep whining about per vertex & 1000 lines on almost evry suggestion, than you might aswell remove all the discussion topics where people can post theyre suggestions, so you know for sure that people wont post any suggestions anymore, and you dont have to worry about "per vertex" :roll:,

because 90% of all gameplay suggestions that people suggested,
will always require allot of work on the animations/per vertex,

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:45 pm 
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Yes Ive seen waht it looks. unfortunately I cant get you a screenshot for that. Believe me, I know the games and software made by idSoftware and I know the limitations. Apparently most of the fps games I played are quake based so I definetely know more about it than you think I do. Another plus for that is I do 3d modelling and animations, so I know exactly what a pervertex mesh can and cannot do.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:47 pm 
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Dragonathan is correct about how the weapons are carried(although he could be a bit more tactful :wink: ). Especially if these guys are supposedly special forces so they should have no problem. I completed my service in the army about 2 years ago and I have to tell you, weight of the weapon doesnt matter, you get used to it, I had to slug around the M249 for 5 years...and in combat or wargames you want to have that thing at the ready, and that thing is much heaver then any of these sniper rifles would be. Of course we held our weapons at an angle most of the time like the following images, I think this perhaps would be more accurate for this mod.

http://www.infiltrationmod.de/waffen/m249_03.jpg


http://www.baseops.net/militarybooks/army_7.jpg

Terrorists on the other hand...no reason to change their stances as they generally are an untrained rabble...just watch videos of their "training" haha...holding AK-47s sideways and firing them...wtf! :lol:

This is not to say they are weak in game lol, I play them quite often :)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:37 pm 
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thats how it is held in America's Army if there are and friendlies around or if your standing next to a wall. The reason the do that (tangoes) is they watch much american movies. lol

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:40 pm 
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How the weapons are carried now can't really be changed. Just deal with it, you can't have everything.

~Silentcrisis

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:31 pm 
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It doesnt really make sense to hold a gun down in a plce where the enemy can pop out of anywhere and a place where your absolutely sure that there are no civilians around.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:29 pm 
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Silentcrisis wrote:
How the weapons are carried now can't really be changed. Just deal with it, you can't have everything.

~Silentcrisis


that's what we've been saying.

the models and code are too messed for this piece of eye candy.
in fact, they'd look similar to that chopped-up pic drago made. :?

and though the 1st-person is slightly messed (it's for the firearm at about the beggining of the rib cage) I can live with it. it's pretty :P

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