Tango Down
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Author:  Alpha Red [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

...But that's Vray, it won't look at all like that ingame. I don't get what you're trying to prove :/.

Author:  Caesar77 [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Some might not know what Vray renders are and mistake the render
for either in-game or something else. In other words, just being clear
to when I post renders, in-game pics or in-editor shots. (It's in TC
forum rules btw)

I also didn't say that in-game they wouldn't look like these models
at all, because they do... the mesh stays identitical, regardless of
what rendered the end result. Just lights and material wise it's a
fact that a game engine can't get to quality of a Vray render.

Ehm, what else am I trying to say ? -> The credit list on this game will be
somewhat shorter than most folks might expect ? The models are from my
main content provider, where I love to shop myself into oblivion because
they haz such a pretty pictures *slaps self*.

Edit :
*** check out Nvidia Maximus 2 setup or terms like real-time rendering,
vray RT on youtube. It is possible to get close to the quality on the pictures.
Can we use that in-game someday ?
Yes we could...if people would have the right gear, from our side that means finishing a
custom engine -or hook up an existing engine (w/custom code) to a different renderer-

On the Stonemason's 'Urban Brawl' map I also have in my Daz Library

Facial real-time rendering

Tree animation real time render

The end goal of Tango Down originally was to use real-time rendering, but then you'd be
catering to a very different type of gamer if that's the only renderer you put into the game
(original plan).

When split in different sequels(current plan), somewhere around parts 6 and 8 I still hope
that we do finish the engine for this kind of in-game rendering. On the other side I hope
someone will have done the job for us by then, so we can concentrate on making games.

Author:  Caesar77 [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

How do our guys look in-game ?


Not too bad compared to renders made in Daz3D actually,
even the digi-camo is something that comes out quiet well.
Just a bit of a seam problem on his head, didn't see that
with the other characters as they have headgear on.
Haven't added anything like subsruface shaders to the character,
nor have I did I add post production,lightning or anything like

Gonna import some textures to make materials out of so
we can spice up the boring surroundings a bit. Then we
import all animations in and PewPewPew :pistols:.

SnowBallNL is at my crib today, so working the rest of the
day on maps. Still would be awesome if we could already
use a fairly finished TC map for the WIP ;-)

Author:  Caesar77 [ Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Dev Update-
* Added 16 different bullet impact decals

* We went through a lot of textures today, to see wether or not their are fit to use.
Like with the models, it's a process of elimination, you take out the ones you
think are good and put them seperate from the rest. Every few days you go over
them again and ditch the ones you don't like or are unsuitable for the game.
-Never thought we'd be spending this much time on this at this stage-

* Checking how far sockets will take us in terms of use in run-walk animations,
because there's a big difference between orientating yourself towards just a
relatively small range (say 15) of guns and getting ready to put over 100 guns
in. No doubt that it's extra work being done now, but better get it done right
in this stage, then having done all the trouble for nothing in case it has to
be redone in a later stage.

* Converting and Importing models and textures into the game engine is something
that's on the program for the rest of the week, because we need to get a backdrop-testing
map ready asap. Hopefully it will get finished quickly, 'coz I can't wait to
see some action happening.

If anybody wants to contribute, here's some unfinished things on our list :::
Particle effects :
** Bloodspatter
** Smoke
** Explosion by nade
** Rain - raindrops
** Snow
** Rubble models

You are all welcome to put in any suggestions, like things for killstreaks or
anything else you might find interesting.

Author:  Caesar77 [ Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!


Converted a pile of game models, including plants, trees and other nature.
Things that will be used will get UVs, the others will be done later. Mainly been
converting-importing in industrial-suburbarban and urban themes plus a lot of care
went in the nature department. Since manually converting every jpeg into tga
would be absolute madness, we say yay for scripting a few lines and not having
to do all the madness ourselves. Conversion of max models (mainly architecture)
is also going well, although they haven't been tested ingame yet. Since we got only
one person working on conversion of Max models in his spare time, we'll just have
to be a little bit patient.

Threw the old animtree out and started a new one that has better control over the whole body,
not just upper and lower body (multi bone blending). This way reload sequences for new guns
will be easier to implement too. Got a cap and helmet fitted on our character through sockets,
so some form of customization is possible with relatively little effort.... glad this isn't a mmorpg,
yet this is a feature(customization) that I have to learn myself in order to start-finish something else...
My chat app. Although I already succesfully connected the Kinect to work with Unreal, hooking
up the feed for the chat to Unreal is still a no-go (didn't put in that much time tbh).

Can't wait until the anim is completely done so it's only mapping and coding from there on out.
Most fun to be had on making own games is the mapping (imo) so looking forward to that a lot.

Was working on other projects too, with some I collect their assets bit by bit, others already completely
coded and only need graphics work done. With the new library in place they finally could
progress a bit further, the Travian like game could even be finished now. Personally I'm very
interested in trying the concept of using architectural models as particles to create a city
layout with random buildings (adventure game/ helicopter game / race game./you name it).
Inspired by the night time buildings in the library, I finally figured out the perfect mapping
formula for a game I've been thinking my netz off for months ::: Black and white.... No colors...

Are all those games going to be made on the Unreal engine ? No, the Travian-like game is still
meant as a browsergame running on HTML5. The others are intended to be launched on
Iphone and Ipads too so the Unreal engine is the best option to create these games for. It might
be possible that the chat app however ends up on another engine (Unreal has a 64 player limit)
because it might need large worlds with a whole lot of similtaneous players on it.

For now, going like a freight train to get Tango Down on the road,
more screenies coming up this week ;-)

Author:  Heisenberg [ Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Can't wait for this! Nice to hear that there will be OS X Support!

Author:  Caesar77 [ Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Cool thing is that it's not only portable to OSX with a few clicks, but also to the Ipad
with a very slight adaptation on it's player controls.

Tiny dev update ::
Sorting-converting-importing-Make Material is a titans work, even with custom tools !
4K textures with corresponding texture maps have been converted and imported. On
the pic you can see that normal and specular maps aren't applied yet, nor have other
extra things like lightning been adapted. Tomorrow a bit of terrainpaintdoodling with the
stuff in the terrain map to get acquainted with all the new textures. Then throw some
half broken walls and ruins of an old house on it and it's time to have a test run with
two players.


Author:  Caesar77 [ Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

If I'd blended the mud (No rescaling at this point) more down to
the bottom it would have looked better.

Muddy Mixtures

Think I'll work this one out a bit further ...
Make Unaccesible buildings on the left and up and make two accessible
parts where the road begins and ends.

Getting those :P combo's of textures together can be somewhat of a challenge,
but is lots of fun to do. Doodling is over, on to the serious stuff again :twisted:

Author:  Stealth [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Do you have an ETA on the first RC of this nice looking game?

Author:  Caesar77 [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Hi there,

Implemented a full dynamic day and night cycle, looks great !
Next stop for our weather system : rain and snow.
Someone on TC:E asked what dynamic day and night cycles are.
Well, dynamic is the oposite of static, non moving, so it moves,
changes. The dynamic day and night cycle is the part that makes
the sun come up in the morning and what sets it in the evening,
exchanging a nice cloudy sky for a starry night sky.

Without spcular map applied, solely textures


With specular map applied only to the head

Nice light shaft action between those trees there

Only reposition the blue light and we good, this pic makes me smile....

How long it will take to play ?
30-60-90 days ? Really depends on how much bumps in the road ahead
are still to come. Getting this new library already took a bit to get sorted
out and converted, things like that are useful but slow us down for a while.

Let's see what's still ahead until we can launch a demo
Animation - Recently started over with the part in the game engine that handles
mixing the mocap onto the game character, so we can have better control over multiple
bodyparts, not only the upper and lower body.

Character - Some minor tweaking, but for full version the head needs to
come off, so we interchange the head without using a whole full-body character.
Clothing materials are still being tweaked... For the demo we would actually
only need 2 characters...

Guns - Anim tweaks and a bit of material tweaking

Particles -Missing muzzle flashes and an explosion, smoke nades are getting there (tweaks).

Menus Or else we even can't select a team or gun ;-(
Not looking forward to this part tbh.

Game models - There, but some need to be converted with some extra love.
Also some UV remapping here and there.

Maps When all of the above is done, we can keep making maps all day everyday

... Let's keep it at right about the time the anim will be done to satisfaction,
a lot of other things will reach a point that they will do for a demo. Like I said,
kinda worried the menus will slow us down a tad. For what it's worth, trying
to go as fast as possible, but some things just need to be done thorough.
Think the safest way to say when it's playable, is to follow progress ?

Back to work,

Author:  Caesar77 [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Still busy on that snow shader... it's a big one. Will also include dynamic cloud shadows to
the environment system, we know how now. The environment system is getting along nicely,
will make a nice addition to the gamer's experience I think.

Crew is busy on a shader to break the repeditiveness of textures, which will be specially
good for the crispy 'new look' walls we got. It basically lays a layer on top of the
texture so it will look old and worn out.

Going over the guns one more time, making a definite list of the guns that will be used.
Need a high quality render of each one to use for gun selection.

Added some camo textures. I'm trying to make a special sort of camo
with reptile scale pattern, later after the vest is remodelled.

Quick 'n Dirty :
Marine Image

Snow Image

UrbanLight Image

Rusty Image

That menu needs to be made asap, makes testing easier and me more assured.
Started on the design of the menus and the HUD, but it's not nearly done.
Will post the Hud later this week.

Author:  InVader [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

So I checked back after a couple of months to see wassup. MWTC looks to be dead, no surprises here. Someone tries to revive tce, again no surprises here. I've read through this thread and I must say I'm interested mainly because UDK is involved and I like it, and I know how to work in it, I can create stuff in it.

So TC:E has one thing no other shooter has. It did what first new MOH never could. It nailed the perfect pacing between CoD and BF. As others already said, "movement feels right" is not something you can brag about when you release the game. It needs some kind of innovation. I've had the idea for THE mmo-shooter that has never been done before, but it's a no-go, as that kind of game would need like a 100 people team. Borderlands 2 got the closest to something that can be called mmo-shooter. I don't even know why they made it 4 player co-op. Other shooter that is called mmo is Planetside 2, but really, all it has is a huge map. Eh, I don't even know what i'm trying to say here.

But those dynamic maps sound like fun, IF done the right way. It needs lots of attention, not just "meh, every now and then wall gets blown to create a new path". It can be something you can brag with once you release the game though. I consider going for something unique better than going for versatility. If you try to do many things at once you might end up doing everything wrong (just my opinion).

TC:E has some of the best maps I ever saw, they are definitively worth keeping around. I like the bow too. Also, maybe some interaction with the map elements to kill the enemy could be interesting. When I say interaction I mean other than red barrels, lol. I had lot's of ideas for a good fps, but I never got around to be serious about them, so I never even wrote those down. I'll write when some come to my mind again.

And uhhh... how is UE3 ever going to work on Linux? Epic Games never ported it over to Linux. I don't think you even have the right port it over to Linux. It would be cool, sure, I also would like to use Linux more instead of Win, but the idea doesn't sound realistic.

Also, have you considered Steam Greenlight about at the end of development?

Kinda OFFTOPIC: As I'm fairly new to modeling, I'm curious how much of those models you made/worked on yourself. I've always had problems with painting those pores and skin imperfections and stuff on the model myself. You see, I'm not really fond of just buying textures/models on the internetz, so I tend to do everything myself.

Author:  Caesar77 [ Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

100 people team
Don't use the unreal engine in that case, won't work. ;-)
Think you were going for the fact that there isn't a realism shooter that works on a large scale ?
Would need a beast of a server anyway, no matter what the approach to it is.

red barrels
: Oh god No, not those things. Think that won't attribute anything to the game,
that sort of interaction isn't really what I meant. What you are talking about is physics and that's
not something that we're going to heavily implement, if even at all. Same with dynamic maps:
those Fx shouldn't be too exagerated, but subtle. If those Fx are too much to throw
off the game's equilibrium then skip and put in part 2.

"If you try to do many things at once you might end up doing everything wrong (just my opinion)."

Totally agree on that one, again a matter of maintaining the game's equilibrium, what's not suitable
for part 1 will be shifted into the planning of part 2.

Mainly focussing now on the 048 maps and those didn't have such effects(dynamic map elements) in them.
To ease them in, it will be used one or twice in one of the new maps ;-)

Steam Greenlight When we're Beta testing it, we'll put it on there.

Linux UE4 has good support for OpenGL and someone already ported an Unreal3 game to Linux, so I don't
see why we couldn't ? Unreal is also supposed to have a 'api' or somekind that will make it possible
to power browser games. IF IT WONT WORK : then people will have to wait until we port it over to
consoles because at that point we'll going to acquire the engine's source code. If not mistaken a/any
licensed source code holder can/may make any changes to the engine that is desired, even if this
includes ports to Linux <not 100% sure tho>.

I modelled the faces of the characters in Daz3D myself, I have an extensive Daz asset library for
creating human characters. Clothes mainly serve as a base, to rework into a better model in this case.
Made 'a bit' of improvements on the pants,helmet and jacket but still have to do a lot on his
upperbody clothing. The skintexture is reworked in Gimp, made it darker and added and some hairs to
see if my hair brush would blend in correctly. Made a preliminary specular map (which I now can do
from the diffuse within UDK). Haven't got normal/bump map applied on any of the screenshots yet as
I want to make some minor changes to the face and to his upperlegs. Also recommending Gimp for making
any texture seamless, Gimp does that in a sec. To get good results (depending on use) I recommend
using a resolution of 4096x4096 for the face. Facial features don't come out well in the standard
light setup that UDK has, so fiddling with (sun)lights is recommended.

Some things get bought, some made from scratch, some donated by their maker, some reworked from a
bought or downloaded-for-free model, as long as it saves time I don't mind. It's the same if you
work in(or hire) a team and those people need to get paid...principle remains the same. When
you're working on a game like a FPS you can't go saying that you'll do everything yourself and not
use a single model, texture or piece of code someone else made.

Tiny dev update :
My signature is part of the menu screen I made. Getting my Gimp on so to speak. Just a few adjustments
to the whole and ready to put the menu in. Getting that menu ready is important, like
milestone important. I saw that as a time consuming hickup that got in the way of testing partiular
elements of the gme, but in actually it's not that hard. If the menu is implemented, then classes,
gun selection and code for multiple gametypes can be tested and will make for good progress.

Author:  luka [ Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Nice work. U need tester ? :P

Author:  InVader [ Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Holy bananas! You're using GIMP?! All respect to this man ^

Hmm, I don't even know that Daz3D program. Does it come for Linux too? Is it for free?

The interactive stuff:
Eh... not necessarily physics. I was thinking about stuff like a rotating bridge. Or randomly occurring scripted up events (easy to do those in UE, really) which will give the players some extra objectives by which they can get extra points if they complete it. I also had an idea for a map with multiple constantly moving elevators or levitating very small islands (rocks), but those are not suited for games like this (UT, if anything).

E.g suddenly you get notified that there are civilians in one of the houses, and you have to escort them to safety during a normal TDM multiplayer match. Also, terrorists an take them as hostiges.
Another example: They tell you that debris is blocking the way for reinforcements. Chopper drops some bombs for you at the drop zone (terrorists can steal them) and you have to clear the way with those. You get extra points, and everyone's respawn timer on your team is halve (so if people are respawning in 10s waves, they will now come in 5s). Or they get a new respawn location. Or if terrorists get the bombs, they can blow some stuff up, to increase the cops respawn timer.
So yeah, something like this would be nice, so that you don't get bored from doing all the respawn-shoot-die all the time.

Linux UE4 has good support for OpenGL

uhhh... did I miss something? Don't you mean UE3?

And yeah I saw that game, Dungeon Defender is it's name I think. I remember because there was people kept throwing shit at each other on the internet, because supposedly they were not allowed to create that port of the UE3 for Linux. Turns out, the same guy made the port who was responsible for the UT3 port (for over 3 years) and never completed it. Also, it feels like Valve had a hand in it. Whatever...

Think you were going for the fact that there isn't a realism shooter that works on a large scale ?

Well, Borderlands 2 does run on UE3, and it is large scale, except that it's not MMO with thousands of players, but a 4 player co-op game. It's not realistic, but its cool. Although originally the game was intended as an MMO. It also "feels" like one (a really good one) despite being 4 player co-op only.

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