Tango Down
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Author:  Damien [ Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Awesome! Makes a huge difference.

Author:  hyshka [ Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Characters looking good.

You're new obj mode sounds interesting, a while ago I had an idea for scripted multiplayer battles which I just haven't seen in FPS games (though I don't follow the industry).

Things like setting a wall to break apart after 2 min of gameplay, or a big vehicle stopping somewhere in the map. Just cool things that make the environment more dynamic so over a 3-6 min match your strategy would change.

Author:  Caesar77 [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Dang, my computer hung on me the last 3 times I started this post.

Characters are getting there (face wise), but still need a lot of work,
but final work on them isn't done by me.

I hope the interactive map elements for teamplay are going to be appreciated. For
some things we are taking the downsized scenario's that were meant for the main game
as they take up 45minutes per round. The original scenario's for the game are rather
intricate and elaborate and take a long time to make. Using downsized scenario's will
make sure we can introduce a more subtle version and keep the original ones for
a sequel.

Implementing the feature, will be just one of those things that will make the game
feel different from TC:E or any other game out there. Think with

- New animation for 1st person view
- Mocap driven animation for 3rd person view
- High poly characters and game objects
- Multiple new gameplays

Even without using a single shader and decorating the mesh of the map only
with it's original textures, the game will feel very different to TC:E. Think that
would still apply if we'd take the original movements of TC and import
it 1:1 into this engine.

Tango Down is not meant as a dupli-clone, let's be clear about that.
I see it more as a TC:TD, True combat meets Tango Down ?
True combat with the flavor of Tango Down ?

**Dev update**
- Added a face, calling him Smiley/Fox
- Made a preliminary gun loadout meant for the playable version
- Content library now at a staggering 250GB and heading for 300...WOW
- One person now constantly converting content to FBX (poor guy)
- Added some gun sounds, need to be check them all out if I have some time.
- Did a little coding on the tool to convert MD5 mesh and animation to UDK
- Coded a little on the 'missing faces's smoothing problem
- Adapting the source code for my messaging app, so it can be used in-game
- Completely repositioned the base for 1st person gun animations so it can
be made into a template if new guns are to be added.
- Added Akimbo animation, so it shoots to each side

Ahoy, it's Smiley

Wearing his crappy low poly hat

Wearing his crappy low poly helmet

From a little but further away

From this distance the low poly doesn't show that much

Author:  Caesar77 [ Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Short update...

Got a bundle of dynamic clothes, thought jeans would be a nice addition, helmets, a bandana
and goggles. Didn't check all the content as it's really a lot. When Daz3D has nice discounts
I tend to buy a lot... like a woman is with buying shoes... Yeah, like that :oops:
Installing only the things needed now.

Explored the textures section a bit more, got a lot that already come with multiple maps
(spec,normal etc.) has a lot of good bricks, concrete, metal, wood and such.

Have bought some ready made scenes-map parts and checking them out later today import
wise. A lot of them look a lot better on a first WIP video than my silly bridge.

Added some add-ons to Blender for import-export between Blender and IDtech formats ;-)
They don't all work in the current version of Blender, so trying to get the version that they do
work on later.

Added animations for walking on ledges, jump over objects(table height) and busy on
an ani for idle when holding two handguns.

Someone asked me how we're going to detect cheaters since we're not using PB.
Let's keep it at : Like a boss + :ban: from all game servers the game runs on.

Screenies will follow later, for now it's time to run to the store to stack up on energy drinks ;-)

Author:  luka [ Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Good job dude :D keep doing that way

Author:  Dragonathan [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

hi Caesar77, models looking good, can't wait for the end result of your game, and perhaps i can help u with some of my suggestions, if you dont mind :D
i posted allot of ideas in this forum, i hope allot of them arent removed by diane,

Author:  Caesar77 [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Did some work on the animation set, it's going to have a few animations that neither
TC, COD, BF or probably any other game has in multiplayer (or singleplayer) mode.
I added a lot of animation that can be activated with triggers on the map. Walking
with your back against the wall on a ledge for example. I think someone here on the
forum once asked for sidestepping ?

It's become a long list and it definitely needs a lot of work, so prioritizing them for
now. Some can be done in between or later, but doing as much as I can at this stage so
I don't have to go back on it too much.

~Yes, off and on I'll be trying to get the TC animation as a converted import, if the
time arrives that I done it I'll let you know. For now, the current animations have
the highest priority. ~

Digged into my code for direct messaging(also outside of the game) and ingame messaging,
just need to connect it up with a SWF and the ingame part is done if I'm correct.
The server still needs work, they gave me the wrong cable to hook it up to my display
and haven't had the chance to get a new one. Servercode needs some updating, I never
got around some messagetypes, like the game messaging. Might redo some of it's code
this week, isn't that much tbh.

Got some new clothes for our character, mostly for the terrorist side, will post a
screenie later.

Dragonathan, without having to go through 165 pages of posts, could you give a few
examples of suggestions you had?

Author:  Dragonathan [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

i will try to collect all my suggestions, thanks for being interested,

Author:  |2ossĀ® [ Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

If I could toss in my 2 cents real quick,

But first: Thank you Caesar and please thank the rest of the team you have for putting in their time, lives, and health into this project. From the things I've seen thus far I'm impressed, but as with this forums mood over the past few years goes, I'm scared to all my hope into it. I hope you understand why without having to discuss the topic.

My 2 cents: :oops:

Now I have no idea how UDK works or what its features include, but as we see the current gaming world evolve its important to see where its going and to beat em all to the punch, per say. Coroner in my opinion introduced the iron sights and lean system into FPS properly before any mainstream game did. So it would be nice to introduce something you know is coming soon, but the mainstream companies haven't implemented yet.

We know that the COD is headed toward dynamic environments. Obviously at the moment the priority is to make the game functional, but thinking this far ahead is best done at the conception instead of at release because change is not easy. BF4 is adding a counter to being knifed. You dont seem to be a fan of kill streaks, but the COD community is HUGE and they like it. Personally i believe MOH:W did it well enough to not make it arcadish. Call in smoke was amazingly effective. Realistic sounds are a must for some people and cannot tolerate pew pew sounds. In game voice chat is quite viral, however with vent, ts, mumble, etc its not a must. Quick cut scenes like in the Titalfall game are really cool as well. When you launch yourself out of the Titan and kill another with another cut scene. Weapon customization, character customization, accessory customization. Charge people for skins like BO2 does. 1.99 for certain camo. Your starting to see open world fps pvp come into play like Tom Clancy's The Division. (Open world game mode?) WarZ is another good example.

Though these ideas are not specifically set for the generic FPS idea, it could still be implemented as game modes for all types of fan bases. Lemme know what you think. As well as other things you see that the mainstream games have not implemented yet, but will most likely within the next few years.

Author:  Haraldzz [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Which is the main problem why TC is so dead at this point (There are of course many other things, but in my opinion, this is the core). It used to be "Look at these pretty nice graphics for the time and realistic small area combat". Now every single AAA game has that and more. Now it's just "TC's shooting and movement feels right". Although that is a very strong point, nobody is going to give a damn about it. Creating a public feature list with the main one being "Perfect feel of shooting and movement controls" won't attract anyone. Having a feature list with the main one being "Fully destructible environments" just appeals to way more people.

Make up your mind. Create priorities, have a distinct goal. Crush the competition.

Author:  Damien [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

I somewhat disagree. Although modern titles try and trick the players with "unique" "innovations", destructible environments, playable dog characters, and so on, is that really the player base TC or a TC related game wants to attract?

In my mind, TC was always about tactics and realism but it never really went for that audience. With TC, some features weren't yet implemented and CQB, although probably the best MP shooter I ever played, just got here too late.

I think there are some players out there, they played Rainbow Six, Swat and so on and would still like a good tactical shooter. Not CoD, not BF but an actual tactical realism shooter.
So continue with the TC legacy and it will naturally attract those players, no need to ruin the game with cloned arcadish nonsensical elements.

Author:  Haraldzz [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

A fair point, Damien. I guess it depends on what kind of auditory are we trying to appeal to. Personally, as far as I can tell, many Call of Duty and Battlefield (3 and Bad Company) players are just dude bros, who want to run inside a building and fire 50 rounds from hip fire by randomly placing their shots in the approximate vicinity of the enemies. Does TC want such people in their player base? I'd rather not.

Author:  Caesar77 [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Have some things that have not been implemented on any other game (to my knowledge)
one is using realistic scenarios by means of creating maps from GIS and satelite data.
In other words, recreate the original location as close to real world as the engine and
mappers can take it.

Other aspects were using dynamic interactive map elements, two being buildings and
crowds and implementing that into team based gameplays. Not to mention that
some of the animations aren't in any other multiplayer shooters yet. So even if we would
pack new things over several releases, we'd still have interesting new aspects each time.
Also packing a secret monkey up my sleeve that has to do with the Kinect and mapping ;-)
-Speaking of, I think the maps of each part issued should be interchangable with each
version.- Am busy on a special Kinect feature and it actually doesn't involve capturing your
whole body, but just your hands. Don't expect the Kinect features to be done soon, but
they're underway, it's even possible that I won't implement the Kinect feature that controls the
character for the simple reason that I haven't got a clue if this will add something or
be useful.

No, not really fan of the killstreaks in COD or other games, though I do understand why
people like them. I also understand that if I want this game for a wide audience that I can't
escape the fact that a seperate gameplay mode with killstreaks included wouldn't be that
bad. Though there has to be a clear way to have distinct killstreaks that apply to our game,
don't wanna walk the same route as COD or any other game, they seem to be immitating the
heck out of each other and that's not something we need to be doing.

One example of ridiculous use of killstreaks would be the NukeTown map from COD. It's 2
houses, a piece of road, basically the smallest map ever and people can call in silly things
like choppers and airstrikes...... What if the map portays an indoor environment like the
Office map on True Combat ? No silly choppers or airstrikes would even be useful or
applicable. I already have a drone (quadcopter) somewhere, could put that in somewhere
as a killstreak. Another Killstreak example could be earning a RPG or grabling hook, claymore /landmine ?

Open-world play is something that needs a lot of developers and wouldn't be that fit for a
realism shooter. Mostly those are used for MMO or adventure type games, graphically
'The division' looks stunning, but the gameplay tends more towards adventure game elements.
Personally, I can appreciate large maps packed with lots of players, not a fan
of vehicles though.

Character, Character face, clothing and guns are things that could be fully customizable
and even could let the player upload his pics to be put on his character (google: projection
painting for more info). BUT full customization means we need to put in a lot of dev time
and resources. This would take a whole team round the clock and that's only possible in a
later stage.

That's it for today, just got back from 4 days of hell @ Euro Disney and sleep will have me
Tango Down in a few minutes. I'll go into what kind of people will be attracted to this game
and the possible aspects that gamers will either like-hate tomorrow. It seems like a
simple thing, but it's something that has many facets to it (Might be 'coz I overanalyzed
it again...).

Author:  |2ossĀ® [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

Haraldzz wrote:
Does TC want such people in their player base? I'd rather not.

TC essentially doesn't matter at this point. By TC I understand your referring to the players who love truecombat. However, there are very little of us left or ever were. Total population doesnt exceed 300 at best. If Caesar creates this solely for TC players he wont have a game long. I'm just being realistic here. Sure TC inspired him to make this, but people are putting in money into this so a return has to be expected. TC community wont provide much even though we'll donate and buy the game when available. It will bring in what? Couple thousand dollars? I'm sure Caesar is already quite a penny in. Next step is to increase the money flow. Where are the biggest game communities? Battlefield and COD. So what do their games have that brings in such large crowds. What can Caesar bring in to invite those crowds while keeping to his TC inspiration. That's my point. Game modes is a great way to see these versatile groups and attract them.
Damien wrote:
In my mind, TC was always about tactics and realism...

Absolutely, the long hours of practicing and training scrim teams for competitions and matches was what made truecombat fun and no other game I've come across has come close to the competition level of this game.
Damien wrote: need to ruin the game with cloned arcadish nonsensical elements.

I never said "lets make the game arcadish" I simply stated that we should take a look at what the current trend of games is and see if we can bring in a larger community. H-Core, S-Core, Realism, Arcadish communities. Lets find a way we can make the game so versatile that all of these types of players will want to play. Look at all the Mods Enemy Territory had? If it only had a standard game setup would it last as long as it did? Look at all the options you could change server side: gravity, speed, fatigue, bots, etc (just the ones i know of) Would Coroner have created truecombat if Enemy Territory wasnt so mod friendly? (lol probably he's crazy like that :D)
Caesar77 wrote:
Though there has to be a clear way to have distinct killstreaks that apply to our game, don't wanna walk the same route as COD or any other game, they seem to be immitating the heck out of each other and that's not something we need to be doing.

I agree.

Author:  Caesar77 [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!

I think the playerbase will mostly consist of everybody who likes sim like
shooters, without the fuzz of any fantasy elements or vehicles, turrets,
exagerated killstreaks and all that kinda $#%#@. Let's just keep it real ;-)

Remember, when people join our playerbase, they did so because they wanted
to play 'on our terms', the way we like gaming. Nothing wrong with that,
right ?

Actually the game is still meant as a free game, With exception of ports to
Ipad, Iphone, Android, Xbox or Playstation ~Plz don't pin me down on the
mobile versions, the Ipad is a workable platform in regards to control, but
haven't managed to get an enjoyable control setup for mobile platforms yet.~

Kickstarter would be a great idea to advance and maintain a free game,
because it would allow us to convert the original maps in a higher tempo and
add HQ new maps periodically. But we could try doing without the sponsoring
of Kickstarter and see how far we come.

Like, keep our fingers crossed that people give the Ipad version lots of love (ROFL)
Then there is the option to offer paid map packs with new maps that the gamer
could buy to even the map dev costs out.

The updated maps from original TC maps will remain free of charge, like they always
were, regardless of what effort or models have been put in the overhaul.

Yes, new maps that won't cost the player any money will also be added. :D
Let's carry this as far as free is possible, without restricting it's growth.

No, those aren't real life pictures, or in-game grafics, those are Vray renders of
scenes/models we got in our library now and there's more where that came from ;-)
Image Models by Evermotion

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