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 Post subject: Tango Down
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Expert
Expert

Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 12:42 pm
Posts: 138
Hi my fellow TC:E fanatics.

In 2009 I made maps for TC:E, but stumbled upon great disasters :
-Water looks crappy
-Characters could be better
-Compilation times are a biznotch (yes, yes, I'll put my 'Hacked' compiler online)
-Total vertices of map are limited
-Oh, PB stops support, mehhh
(not to mention the installing and search for server lists problems)

Yada Yada Yada, decided to make the map for TC:E, but only to port it to my own
game later. Keej, then the promise of CQB came.....and we waited patiently....

DAMN YOU COR, WHY LET US WAIT SO LONG, BRO ?
What you could have done, was ask help from the COMMUNITY !
Why port it as a Mod again ? *Slams head on table*

To keep things very short, this is the start of the remake of Obj_village :
http://imageshack.us/a/img402/609/jackt ... gerema.jpg
Don't mind the map being in 1 texture, the import was quick and dirty to check
if it even would import the right way. Don't mind the trees either, was noobing
around with the stock models.

Remarks :
- NO,that's NOT GTK ;-)
- Yes, I know : don't use WET models or textures ;-)
- Animation sequences done by MoCap (Shhhht, that was a costly joke)
- All original TC:E maps would need remodelling and retexturing
- No infringement intended, just don't want this game to die, keej. (credits remain)
- Why are there no 3D characters that are good enough, that don't cost 200 bucks ?
(luckily I haz Kinect to scan 3D things, now where can I find a soldier to scan ?)
- Yes, you can send me E-hugs and hatemail

I'm at work, so wrote this in quiet a hurry. Will post more screenshots this weekend,
after we texture a few things correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Brazil
I'm really surprised with this... it is an entirely new game, with same thematic? How do you expect to achieve it? The things are frequently started here but never are finished in the last times. Well, I would like to see your work finished at least, I will be watching this thread to see it.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 9:15 am 
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Master
Master
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Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:01 pm
Posts: 457
UDK


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 12:42 pm
Posts: 138
We already started this project once back in 2009 and somewhere down the road
it was put on the shelves, but never stopped collecting resources and software.

The way we set it up in the beginning was wrong (test our maps in TC:E, then port it
over to another engine), not to mention that deciding on the right engine before spending
money on tools and models was a meticulous process. From experience I can tell you that
preparation is a very important part of the process to make a game. The more you spent on
prepping, the smoother and better the development of the game.

We are working on an entirely new game, with a team bodycount gametype and will also
implement something I call scenerario gameplay, which is also played in teams.
Since the last gametype needs a lot of props and models, it will take a while before
maps and other aspects are done.

Then the idea came to mind to add the possibilty to add gametypes called TCE048 and
TCE049 that would enable players to play the maps and gametypes of the corresponding
TCE versions. Then the problem arose that there is no way to one click convert the maps
used in TC:E, it takes effort to get it all done. It could be possible if someone wrote a
converter.... or a magic wand.


How shall we go about it ?

- Convert a level
- Make it walkthrough (1st person perspective)
- Add Characters
- Add animations (moves)
- Make it playable
- Add server possibilities
- Do more maps
- Add tuts online, so others can make maps too

First I want to see how fast I can get the whole Obj_Village map in our game engine (UDK).
Not concentrating on anything else in this phase, not putting in anything extra
or changing anything, purely wanting to know the time for the conversion, with only
textures applied. Knowing the time for a basic conversion is rather important to most of us,
so I'll keep precise track of time on this. After that, I'll redo the materials on the map and
plant new foliage and grass. Also would be nice before I take the last step to make a video
to show the difference between how it looks textured, without any effects applied and
the version with effects..

After that we make it playable by adding some first person perspective gun action and slowly
keep adding more structures to the sides of the map to dress it up more. I'll probably end up
doing a complete remake of the map, knowing myself.

Things I'm not looking forward to :
Although we got professional Mocap equipment, doing characters for the game is a pain in
the 4$$. I got a SWAT character around here somewhere that isn't going to be used in
the main game. It didn't end up in the main game, because it wasn't super mega high quality.
I'll post an in-engine pic of the Swat character to see how it looks later.

Why not implement the characters from the main game into TC:E ?
Well, I want to try to make the TC:E part free to the public at no cost at all, so using our
models that cost between 200 and 1200 USD a piece is not an option. However, for the
people that buy the main game, that option will be available.

Every gametype will have it's own set of animations, weapon loadout and some even have
their own characters. Since we chose this setup, 'remaking' TC:E would not be that difficult
to implement. Could TC:E maps be used to play the 'main' game's other gametypes ?
Not really, or I'll have to remake the maps completely to suit the movements that are
possible for those gametypes.

Finally I want to answer a question that many have asked me already before :
Can you port TC:E to the PS3 or other consoles as a standalone game ? No, not
the way it is setup like it is now (free of charge). Getting games ported to those
consoles will cost money Per platform to issue the game on and this is not a
cheap venture.


That's it for now, more to come later.
Questions or suggestions ? Shoot !


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Expert
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Brazil
So, what can I say about it? It's really exciting. Who are your team collaborators in this venture?


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 10:03 pm 
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Marksman
Marksman
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Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:12 am
Posts: 24
Realy interesting!

Count me In. I can easily learn to dev on your game enfine if I have enought informations.

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*Zyth, aka Spetsnaz*


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:53 am 
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Master
Master

Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:13 pm
Posts: 262
Location: Slovenia
If u need testers let me know :)


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Master
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Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:19 pm
Posts: 411
Good luck with the project, hope you'll make something playable out of it :)

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"It's by doing whatever that you become whoever"


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 12:42 pm
Posts: 138
For the TC:E part we haven't had much time to recruit others from the main game yet,
but don't need a very large crew to set the game up. We already got a vast amount
of resources like textures and models, saving us a lot of time. At the moment
we're doing this with a crew of 3, but do move fast and efficient, if I may say so
myself. Besides me, the only TC:E player you might know is SnowballNL.

With the goal to convert a map ASAP, yet keeping optimizing methods in mind
I tried several methods to convert a map aiming for the easiest method for
others to use. Although these tests are time consuming, they can save others
and myself a lot of hassle for future conversions. Also showing the ways of how
not to do it and why not to do it in certain ways, will be crucial to making good
looking models and maps.

I'll make a tutorial, with the conversion of Obj_Village as example and post
it online as soon as the basic conversion on the whole map is done. There are
some optimization techniques that people who do their own conversion need to
apply and this map is excellent to demonstrate these techniques.

Are we going to put out a testing version ?
I don't think so, let's just aim to launch a working version at the first try,
that already has all the elements that the final product should have. Let's
say that if the bodycount gamemode is finished, even if only two maps would
be ready, we're putting it out there. The case where I could see us doing a
test version is if we have already set up everything to make it playable, have
maps to play and would lag behind with implementing different game characters or
guns used ingame.

You also don't have to wait until we finish the main game to play TC:E...
The main game will take up many more months of development, with the
scenario gameplay being the problem child of the whole project.
Why not do it in reverse ? TC:E always was ported on top of another game,
so the reverse would be : Making TC:E public first as a playable and free
standalone, that offers the possibility to lay our main game over it,
giving TC extra options like high end player models, more movements, multiple
gameplays etc.

Maybe so there will be no confusion, I'm dubbing my version of True Combat
True Combat: Tango Down or TC:TD for short, that is, if none of the members
of Team Terminator will object to this name.

Tonight or tomorrow I'll post a list with downloadable models for TC:TD, like guns
for you to texture and a list with things that other people already could work on.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:55 am 
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Groove Six Studios
Groove Six Studios

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:24 pm
Posts: 309
Hi there,

sounds very interesting and I am looking forward to see the first playable version.
I was also working with UDK a bit but always considered an engine switch as undoable (for me).
It appears promising to see other people working on it. UDK could bring back portal scopes, just to name one thing :), and UDK has very nice radiosity lightmapping combined with real time shadow maps.

If your project is coming along nicely and if it will fit into the TC franchise, I could offer my expertise as senior consultant and blessing with the TC name. So far, I think you should use a working title and just call it, e.g., "tango down".

Let me know about the project progress, sounds exiting! I could provide my visible legs code at a later stage if you are interested (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vc_QQRRN5o)

cheers, cor


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Expert
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Brazil
Now things got really interesting!!


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:08 am 
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Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 12:42 pm
Posts: 138
Ugh, computer just crashed, lost some work, so it's forum time.

Thanks Coroner, would appreciate all the help and input you can give us, really means a lot.
You are also one of the only persons who could help us fine tune the animation it to TC:E
setting in things like how long is 1 step sequence in time and the distance it covers, or knife
distance.

Although I know both Cryengine and UDK, this project still made me decide on UDK,
because Tango Down wouldn't have any cinematics or the need for it's high end
character features. Learning is always a process, but I'd say...it's well worth it and the
experience you got with one engine will enable you to switch over to another one quite
easy with a little adapting time and patience.

One of the goals I have is to make it easy for the mappers amongst us to add their own
content, meaning I will also going to adding tutorials for Blender and UDK. Trying to get
the Blender ones that apply to converting the existing maps online asap.

Another tradition of this game I want to keep true to is that it should be a free game,
limiting it in a few things, one being the models. Last week I downloaded 3 models,
one being satisfactory and the other two need a lot of work. Trying to get the gear of
the models to use on a custom high resolution mesh. If that doesn't work to satisfaction,
scanning with 3D is the next step I'm resorting to, which would give a much nicer natural mesh.

But for now concentrating on getting the map rebuilt and writing tuts in between,
since I had to explain it to one of the members anyway. I'll do a true remake of the map
first, without adjusting anything other than the grass and trees (textures from WET get replaced).
Then we throw in some first person view animations and run around the map
for it's first WIP video, before moving on to the next step.

Would be a great honor to create something that would be worthy to continue the Legacy
of one of the best games ever made, so we can enjoy many more years playing it.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Master
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:11 pm
Posts: 269
To some degree I am skeptic. Good luck, I am going to give you that much.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Brazil
Haraldzz wrote:
To some degree I am skeptic. Good luck, I am going to give you that much.


Certain things never change here :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 TC:E NextGen edition !!!
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 12:42 pm
Posts: 138
I don't mind, would feel the same actually ....
- All previous attempts from others to continue /remake TC:E failed
- There was never a guarantee for continuity, it is as is.

That's just being real.


Quick update :

3 hrs of ambient sounds for several scenes have been added. No need
for loops anymore as there's much more to come.

Thought jackets, cargo pants, vests and headwear would take time
to acquire/ sculpt/retexture, so taking the easy way. Although I said no
paid stuff will be put in Tango Down...Scratch one, Tango Down to that
idea. Shortcuts save time and I want to play A.S.A.P. ;-) So I just bought a
soldier with different gear props, that can easily be used to dress
multiple characters. It's camo texture, pants pockets and the end of the
sleeves (visible when holding gun) still need some TLC. Made an inventory for
animations of unused mocap files and to my surprise *Who said data hoarding
was useless* I could find more than half of the animation sequences we need.

Will do some work on different characters this week so we can get a quick series
of screenshots out there for the different players that you can choose from.

Map progress (5/26th) trying to get 2-3 additional done in the next 48 hrs,
but characters have priority now. Trying to maintain an average of 0.5-0.75
map parts a day just to keep a realistic factor in regards to time.


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